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Thread: "Calories in / Calories Out" -- Please Stop the Madness page 40

  1. #391
    Derpamix's Avatar
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    into insulin and the "speed" of the carb, which has increased in modern times
    Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.

  2. #392
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    see now we are on page 40 - that wasn't so hard - was it !!!!!!!
    "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

    ...small steps....

  3. #393
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    not even the spambots are touching this thread
    Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    not even the spambots are touching this thread
    however Gwamma has finally arrived - that has to be a good thing doesn't it ?????????
    "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

    ...small steps....

  5. #395
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    always
    Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Drinking my coffee, expanding some thoughts on how "calories in / calories out" is more accurately though of as propaganda than science...

    Question: Let's ask the question, who does the propaganda benefit? And thus who would be most interested in spreading it? We are practicing "follow the money trail" which is always a useful analytical technique when studying the United States.

    Answer: It benefits the fitness industry, increased profits. It benefits the sugar/agriculture industry, defense to existing massive profits. It benefits the low-calorie food market, creates a new sub-category of products. It benefits the drug companies, the doctors, etc. It doesn't particularly benefit humanity, but we aren't supposed to notice that part because we are only looking at profit, destruction of human healthy is an "externality".

    On the other hand how does the alternative hypothesis increase profit? Well if sugar/white flour raises insulin which drives fat, it hurts the sugar/agriculture industry, duh. It hurts the fitness industry, because all that frantic jumping around is pointless. And it hurts the low-calorie food market, since calories isn't specifically the problem.

    Thus CICO drives action, "go buy stuff". But the alternative hypothesis drives inaction, it is the absence of purchasing sugar and the absence of exercise, while perhaps solving the obesity epidemic. If the alt-hypothesis is true, it is the enemy of industry, thus the conflict of interests; human health vs industry profit.
    And on the flip side. Diet books telling people calories don't matter and that being fat is not your fault sell well as well. Low carb products make a lot of money and even "paleo" products and supplements are becoming increasingly popular.
    Welcome to Paleo Bars

    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Right, some people stopped eating sugar/processed food and started eating better sources of carbohydrates and had some results (although I don't actually see the results discussed). That's what we are talking about, that's great. And the article specifically goes into insulin and the "speed" of the carb, which has increased in modern times (which is outside of CICO).
    Exactly, they can have great success going back to eating healthy carbs.

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    You find out your TDEE by experimentation. Eat 1,700 calories every day for a week. If you don't lose weight, drop it to 1,600 calories. If you don't lose weight, drop it to 1,500 calories. It may take a few months before you dial it in. Most people that claim CICO "doesn't work" don't put forth the time and effort to track their food intake properly or track their TDEE properly. Don't use some general equation from a website, assume your activity level, loosely track your portions and complain when it "doesn't work." People fail the system, the system never fails because CICO is absolute.
    You're going into the same loop again, they keep dialing down and no weight loss, they get down tom 1,000 and therir metabolism has slowed down, they dial down further, 800, and they start becoming skinny/fat and their body begins catabolising muscle, they experience fatigue, low body temperature and other symptoms, what's your answer then? eat more carbs?

    That never was the problem, the problem was they were sick to begin with and needed to eat right and heal first before they worried about weight.

  8. #398
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    I would think that more than CICO which has "some" influence, it is more a matter of
    - food nutrient partitioning (macro and micro)
    - type of physical activity
    - influence of both of the above on hormonal signaling (aka endocrine system)

    If it was only CICO, we would be in deep shit ...

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    You're going into the same loop again, they keep dialing down and no weight loss, they get down tom 1,000 and therir metabolism has slowed down, they dial down further, 800, and they start becoming skinny/fat and their body begins catabolising muscle, they experience fatigue, low body temperature and other symptoms, what's your answer then? eat more carbs?
    So? CICO holds true every time. The individual just has no idea what they're doing and they're starving themselves and crushing their thyroid. Caloric deficits should be mild and not constant - calorie cycle. Have high days when you work out and low days when you're sedentary. The net caloric intake should be a deficit, but you shouldn't always be in a deficit or you're going to downregulate your metabolic rate as a protective mechanism against starvation.

    This is not an argument against CICO. It is just another user error.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    That never was the problem, the problem was they were sick to begin with and needed to eat right and heal first before they worried about weight.
    No matter how unhealthy you are, it's still CICO. People need to realize it always comes down to food intake. The problem is too many people believe if they keep carbs low they can eat as much as they want. This isn't true - it all comes down to calories. That is what this is about - knowing that in every case if you are not losing weight it is always due to overeating. If you want to maximize your "calories out" end of the equation, this is where you have to do some experimentation and maximize your nutrition per calorie to support your metabolic rate.

    Still CICO.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    This is not an argument against CICO. It is just another user error.
    As long as you change the definition of "CICO" to avoid whichever particular criticism it's under at the time...

    Your entire post is a refutation of what most of us refer to as "CICO," but when that's pointed out, you just conflate it with the First Law of Thermodynamics (which nobody disputes).

    This is tiresome.

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