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  1. #291
    Gorbag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    You haven't answered the question, sir. Who loses more weight, the isocaloric 70% of calories from coca-cola group or the isocaloric Primal diet group?
    You will get a higher termogenic effect from the proteins in the primal group, and it also depends on how much fat the primal group contains since fat has a very little thermogenic effect, if any at all. The termogenic effect of sugar should be around 10 % though, but I am sure that somebody can do the exact calculations for you. Anyway there will not be much difference. Probably you will lose less weight on the primal diet, because you will retain some more muscle...

  2. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Rich, i would guess on a diet of mostly sugar and caffeine that they would weigh less. There would be muh more fat AND muscle loss.
    At 2,250 kCal/day, you think they get skinny-skinny, not skinny-fat?

    What if we put both groups on "maintenance" calories, calculated at the start of the experiment based on our best formulas for determining TDEE, and use the same diets? Then who ends up fatter and heavier? I bet it's the Coca-cola group. Because I bet their metabolisms downregulate and the calories in end up exceeding the calories out.

  3. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    It's completely different than the potato hack. Are you even remotely serious? Comparing eating a single food with avoiding an unnecessary macronutrient?
    There you go again taking something out of context. This discussion is about weight loss and, like it or not, the potato hack and low carb hack produce similar weight loss results because they have a lot of things in common. You made a straw man. This isn't about the wider options and nutrients available on low carb, this is strictly about weight loss hacks and why they sometimes work. low carb and potato hacks work for very similar reasons. I said nothing about equal nutrition, you raced to that wrongful conclusion.

    Which essential nutrients exactly have to be supplemented on low carbohydrate diets?
    Sodium, magnesium, potassium, and calcium are notoriously missing minerals in low carb diets and often need supplementation.
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  4. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    Sodium, magnesium, potassium, and calcium are notoriously missing minerals in low carb diets and often need supplementation.
    Sodium: Um, Salt.
    Magnesium: Spinach
    Potassium: Avocado
    Calcium: Broccoli and Cheese

  5. #295
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    Alright Richmahogany: Some hasty calculation to your former question: For the Coca-Cola group: 2250kcal - 10%(thermogenic effect from sugar) = 2,025 “effective” calories, and for the primal group; if we suppose 600 kcal from proteins, 1.450 kcal from fat and 200 kcal from carbs, then we get 2.106 “effective calories”, (minus 30 % from proteins, minus 3% from fat, and minus 10 % from carbs), so the Coca-Cola group will have even less effective calories than the primal group and a higher deficit. Maybe we could subtract something from dietary fibers in the primal group, but there is anyway not much difference between the two groups…

  6. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by peppermint View Post
    Sodium: Um, Salt.
    Magnesium: Spinach
    Potassium: Avocado
    Calcium: Broccoli and Cheese
    You can't reason with unreasonable people.

  7. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Alright Richmahogany: Some hasty calculation to your former question: For the Coca-Cola group: 2250kcal - 10%(thermogenic effect from sugar) = 2,025 “effective” calories, and for the primal group; if we suppose 600 kcal from proteins, 1.450 kcal from fat and 200 kcal from carbs, then we get 2.106 “effective calories”, (minus 30 % from proteins, minus 3% from fat, and minus 10 % from carbs), so the Coca-Cola group will have even less effective calories than the primal group and a higher deficit. Maybe we could subtract something from dietary fibers in the primal group, but there is anyway not much difference between the two groups…
    Until their BMR's and non-exercise activity expenditures fall through the floor. Then the CI side of the equation has messed up the CO side and all our maths go out the window. And the FLT remains unviolated. But one group sees weight loss and one doesn't. At least that's how I guess it would play out.

  8. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    You don't know what a straw man is I see.
    Thought it was where you take someones argument and twist it so that you can shoot down some absolutist and/or undisputed fact that is related to the issue, but not that which was actually said by the original person?

    Sorry, I didn't look up the definition on wiki or anything. Thats just my basic understanding. And if my basic understanding is near correct then I do know what one is. I'm gonna post this blind... i.e. without actually looking up the definition and you can feel free to flame me if I'm way off.

    In your defense most people including myself who have a problem with CICO conflate it with "eat less move more" or the "gluttony and sloth" hypothesis for obesity. When we say CICO don't work we are really talking about as a prescriptive solution the "gluttony and sloth" hypothesis does not offer a reasonable intervention and yes has been shown in clinical study not to work as proofed by weight gained back within a short time after initial loss.

    Of course I also remember a time you told me I didn't know what an "appeal to authority" was. Turns out I did know that one!
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-05-2013 at 02:13 PM.

  9. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Thought it was where you take someones argument and twist it so that you can shoot down some absolutist and/or undisputed fact that is related to the issue, but not that which was actually said by the original person?
    Okay, you know what a straw man is. But you don't know what "render" means.

  10. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Okay, you know what a straw man is. But you don't know what "render" means.
    Is that when I use my fancy video card to convert suet to tallow? :-P

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