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Thread: "Calories in / Calories Out" -- Please Stop the Madness page 16

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    You can eat a big steak for the same calories as a piece of cake, the calories will be mostly protein-based (superior for body composition) and you'll stay full for hours in the steak whereas the cake may make you hungrier. It's that simple.
    I thought it was as simple as eating less and moving around more? Are we pro-CICO or anti-CICO today?

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    I thought it was as simple as eating less and moving around more? Are we pro-CICO or anti-CICO today?
    Are you serious?

    She isn't eating as much. Period. That's the only reason why she's losing weight. How about you quote the whole post?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    You are eating more food volume but less calories. Whole foods are far less calorically dense than processed foods. You can eat a big steak for the same calories as a piece of cake, the calories will be mostly protein-based (superior for body composition) and you'll stay full for hours in the steak whereas the cake may make you hungrier. It's that simple.
    Trollolol. You're adorable.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    You are eating more food volume but less calories. Whole foods are far less calorically dense than processed foods. You can eat a big steak for the same calories as a piece of cake, the calories will be mostly protein-based (superior for body composition) and you'll stay full for hours in the steak whereas the cake may make you hungrier. It's that simple.
    And why does the cake make you feel hungrier than the steak?

    Oh, it's that tricky bastard insulin coming in to confound the pure calories in, calories out theory!

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Are you serious?

    She isn't eating as much. Period. That's the only reason why she's losing weight. How about you quote the whole post?


    Trollolol. You're adorable.
    I'm serious about the fact that you misunderstand the very CICO argument you claim to support.

    Your post is an excellent re-statement of (at least part of) the alternative hypothesis.

    That being said, I kind of think you come off as an a-hole when you tell people to eat less and move around more. Because you know it's not so simple (as demonstrated above).

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    And why does the cake make you feel hungrier than the steak?

    Oh, it's that tricky bastard insulin coming in to confound the pure calories in, calories out theory!
    Even if it's not the insulin, but the fact that cake is a processed food, (like cream or butter?), he's arguing against the very CICO principles that he claims to support.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Even if it's not the insulin, but the fact that cake is a processed food, (like cream or butter?), he's arguing against the very CICO principles that he claims to support.
    Hey, I agree that calories matter a lot. But the human body is definitely more complex than the pure "it's 100% calories all the time" arguement.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    Hey, I agree that calories matter a lot. But the human body is definitely more complex than the pure "it's 100% calories all the time" arguement.
    Gain or loss of mass is defined as the calorie surplus or deficit consumed. But they're dependent variables. The type of calories you eat affects the amount of calories you expend. And the type of expenditure affects the amount you eat. And the type of calories you eat affects the amount you eat (as Choco noted above). They're complex, interrelated figures that are regulated by mechanisms beyond our control and precise understanding.

    So the prescription for weight loss isn't so simple as "eat less, move more." It's eat smarter, move smarter.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Even if it's not the insulin, but the fact that cake is a processed food, (like cream or butter?), he's arguing against the very CICO principles that he claims to support.
    No he is not, many people will feel more satisfied by eating the steak instead of the piece of cake, but they will lose or gain exactly the same if they eat the same amount of calories. Your strawman that eating the piece of cake may lead some people to eat more calories, and then breaking their diet, is irrelevant here...

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    No he is not, many people will feel more satisfied by eating the steak instead of the piece of cake, but they will lose or gain exactly the same if they eat the same amount of calories. Your strawman that eating the piece of cake may lead some people to eat more calories, and then breaking their diet, is irrelevant here...
    And my arch nemesis is back in full force!

    It's really not irrelevant nor a strawman. If it were possible to hold both intake and expenditure constant, CICO would work perfectly. The fact is decades of studies have shown that people make terrible bomb calorimeters.

    If your food makes you hungrier, you'll have a harder time losing weight. Because you'll eat more and move less. But CICO dogma confuses the cause and the effect.

    When an adolescent grows taller, he's obviously eating more than he expends. But we don't tell parents to force-feed their growing children to make them taller, (or starve them to keep them from growing too tall) because we recognize that hormonal signals are driving the extra calorie intake.

    It's the same when a middle-aged woman grows fatter. Telling her to eat less and get more exercise (CICO dogma) is putting more blame on her than she likely deserves.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    And why does the cake make you feel hungrier than the steak?

    Oh, it's that tricky bastard insulin coming in to confound the pure calories in, calories out theory!
    Nope. Insulin doesn't increase hunger, it decreases it.

    Cake increases hunger for one reason - it is a mix of sugar, starch and fat. These things make you want to eat more when in combination. Take a tablespoon to a bag of flour, a bag of sugar and a bucket of oil separately. You won't get very far. Mix them together and what do you get? Addiction.

    Of course, if you can control your intake, you won't gain weight...but most can't control and overeat. There is nothing inherently fattening about cake. It is just more likely to be overconsumed than plain meat.

    CICO is not a theory, it is a law. If you disagree, you are wrong. Steak releases more insulin than pasta.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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