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Thread: Studies assessing the effects of whole grain consumption within a good diet page 2

  1. #11
    magicmerl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnOrVladimir View Post
    Im sorry but the studies author is a paleoanthropologist, what are your qualifications to dispute the findings of his study?
    The idea that natura selction stopped when humans developed larger socities is a misunderstanding. Our environment changed drastically, and as a result, natural selection began selecting for a whole new suite of features. Or evolution really has sped up, and continues to speed up. The issue today is no longer how to fight off lions, but that doesnt mean we dont face selective pressures.
    Whoa, check your arrogance and condescension at the door please.

    It's true that mutations increase linearly with population. But Paleobird is also right that natural selection has been greatly weakened in the same period, which I think is self evident given the population explosion.

    I don't think that evolution has spread up. At least, I agree that more mutations are occuring in humans now than ever before, but because there's no (or only very weak) natural selection forces at play, the mutations aren't being selected for.

    Probably the biggest thing we're selecting for in the last 50 years is resistance to plastic toxicity.
    Last edited by magicmerl; 04-02-2013 at 05:39 PM.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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  2. #12
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    i also think our environment and foods have changed so dramatically in the last 50 years there is no way we are keeping up.

    add to that a nation of fat sick kids on asthma inhalers and ritalin and i don't see strength in the future.
    Last edited by noodletoy; 04-02-2013 at 07:41 PM.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    I think there is a basic misunderstanding of what "natural selection" involves.

    "Natural selection" is when people with a certain trait tend to die younger and do not pass their traits onto future generations, while people with other traits disproportionately survive to pass on their traits.

    A clear illustration of the fact that natural selection is not really at play is that medical intervention keeps alive many people who would have died early in life, who can now pass on the genes that would have kept them from reproducing even a few generations ago. Think Type I diabetes, sufferers of which never had the opportunity to start families until quite recently.
    Exactly. The genes don't care if you live a long and healthy life into old age. They only care about getting you to reproductive age as fast as possible and popping out as many copies of themselves as possible. Someone who was unfit and overweight would never have survived in Paleolithic times. They wouldn't have been able to run fast enough or pull themselves up into a tree to get away from the saber toothed tiger. There is no such selective pressure now.

    And MM is right, that JohnOrVladimir person or persons really need(s) to lose the attitude.

  4. #14
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    It's worth to note that the great majority of random mutations are harmful.

    Yes, the number of mutations scales with population but 99+% of these mutations are bad. Given the reduced evolutionary pressure, a lot of these bad mutations survive in the human gene pool. The long-term consequences are a valid concern.

    We are evolving, but not towards fitness -- our gene pool spreads out and succumbs to entropy...

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumifer View Post
    It's worth to note that the great majority of random mutations are harmful.

    Yes, the number of mutations scales with population but 99+% of these mutations are bad. Given the reduced evolutionary pressure, a lot of these bad mutations survive in the human gene pool. The long-term consequences are a valid concern.

    We are evolving, but not towards fitness -- our gene pool spreads out and succumbs to entropy...
    It's also true that in many cases mutations, both beneficial and harmful, will disappear rather than becoming established in the population.

  6. #16
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    Mutants are taking over the planet! o.O

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    The way I heard it in biology (5 years ago) was that the vast majority or random mutations were neutral, either by having an effect that was not selected for or against, thus contributing to genetic diversity, or by not having an effect at all. These small differences could influence the effect of later mutations, of course.

    The resultant diversity within the species increases the chance that some members will already have the adaptions necessary to survive in times of change, crisis, or general stress/pressure.

  8. #18
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    Back to the request of the OP, I too would like to see a study comparing the presence or absence of whole grains in otherwise equally healthy diets. In other words, a comparison of paleo or primal against, for example, the Mediterranean diet.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill C View Post
    Back to the request of the OP, I too would like to see a study comparing the presence or absence of whole grains in otherwise equally healthy diets. In other words, a comparison of paleo or primal against, for example, the Mediterranean diet.
    Hear, hear!
    We are like cattle, blocked in by industrial confines. Walking down aisle seven, I grab my wheat flakes like a foddered bovine. ~lucid space

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Oh, I'm sorry, I was under the impression that you posted it in order to start a discussion.
    LOL, you didn't get the memo. Intelligent discussion is not welcome on MDA forums.

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