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  1. #1
    Tod's Avatar
    Tod
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    Two cents on cross fit wanted ?

    My Crossfit schedule has been 3 times per week, now the schedule will offer our time slot 5 days a week everyone is on board for the five days a week however, I have reservations about getting burned out or injured ? What are your thoughts ???
    Thanks
    Raise grass fed bison all natural. trying to gage this comunity to see if their is any intrest?

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    RichMahogany's Avatar
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    I don't remember if Rip mentions CrossFit by name in this excellent article, but he clearly has it in his sights: T NATION | Conditioning is a Sham

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    A GREAT read. Thanks for posting.

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    I do crossfit, but I am not zealous about it. I came to crossfit with no background in athletics whatsoever, so my learning curve was a bit steeper than a lot of my fellow crossfitters. I've been at it for 9 months, and I'm just getting to the point where I can Rx some (very few) of the WODs. I enjoy it for the variety and the community, but I'm far from being some ripped and shredded poster girl.

    That being said, I know for myself that 5 days a week would be a disaster. I crossfit 3x a week, and I supplement with yoga/pilates 2-3x a week, which is something I highly recommend to anyone, crossfitter or not.

    For you? I don't know. We have lots of people who go 5+ days a week and seem to really enjoy it. I know myself and I know that I would burn out quickly on that schedule. I suppose a good indicator would be if you played competitive sports of any kind, in high school/college or beyond. I think a lot of the people who do well with the 5+ days a week training are comfortable in that zone from previous athletic experience. Just my totally unscientific observation.

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    I go to my Crossfit box 4-5 times a week. I also lift weights (at my house--I have Olympic weights) 3 days a week and I run short distances (3 miles or less a couple times a week. I don't get burned out, but Crossfit isn't just a place to work out; I socialize there as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badkty22 View Post
    I do crossfit, but I am not zealous about it. I came to crossfit with no background in athletics whatsoever, so my learning curve was a bit steeper than a lot of my fellow crossfitters. I've been at it for 9 months, and I'm just getting to the point where I can Rx some (very few) of the WODs. I enjoy it for the variety and the community, but I'm far from being some ripped and shredded poster girl.

    That being said, I know for myself that 5 days a week would be a disaster. I crossfit 3x a week, and I supplement with yoga/pilates 2-3x a week, which is something I highly recommend to anyone, crossfitter or not.

    For you? I don't know. We have lots of people who go 5+ days a week and seem to really enjoy it. I know myself and I know that I would burn out quickly on that schedule. I suppose a good indicator would be if you played competitive sports of any kind, in high school/college or beyond. I think a lot of the people who do well with the 5+ days a week training are comfortable in that zone from previous athletic experience. Just my totally unscientific observation.
    +1 for adding Yoga, Pilates, or any flexibility/strength movement. With gains in lean muscle mass you still need the flexibility to use it.

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    I do Crossfit 5x a week. I supplement with yoga. I think it just depends on your personal exercise tolerance level. Some people get burned out faster, whereas I tweak out if I don't go every day.

    How about you try out a week at 5x frequency by dropping in two classes in addition to your current three? See if it wipes you or if you feel okay.

  8. #8
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    There's nothing wrong with training 5 times a week per se, it's more a matter of how you train and how you recover.

    In terms of training, CrossFit can be a big gamble. What will these 5 workouts look like? Who comes up with them? What is the methodology behind them? In a past life I did CrossFit from the main site. I basically followed the WOD. My observations were as follows:

    - No thought is given to muscle/joint overuse. It was common to have a, for example, shoulder intensive workout on Monday, followed by a shoulder intensive workout on a Tuesday, followed by a, you guessed it, shoulder intensive workout on Wednesday. Look at the last 6 workouts: high rep clean and jerks, high rep thrusters and chest to bar pull-ups, 2.25km of rowing for time plus toe to bars, high rep jerks, push presses, overhead squats, and presses, burpee pull-ups and power cleans mixed together for time, max effort 2RM thrusters. Shoulder surgeons must love CrossFit.

    - Some workouts seem absolutely ridiculous. For example, if you can't do muscle-ups, the suggestion is to do 3 pull-ups and 3 dips for every muscle-up. There were workouts that would have you do literally 100+ pull-ups and dips for time.

    - Good lifts used for stupid purposes. There were often workouts that had you do Olympic lifts (cleans, snatches) either for high reps, or in between other exhaustive exercises. This neglects the main reason to do Olympic lifts, which is to develop power, and increases risk of injury. Jerking up a heavy barbell 15 times when you've just sprinted a lap and done 50 burpees is not simply hard - it's stupid.

    From a recovery standpoint, are the workouts designed in a way such that all muscle groups are utilized but not over-trained? Are the coaches focused on quality over quantity? Can the coaches explain precisely why they choose certain exercises and the set/rep schemes that they use? Can they explain the physiology behind the workouts and how it will positively affect your fitness?

    Anyone can come up with a bunch of random exercises and tell someone to do them for time. Then, when questioned, just say it's all about muscle confusion and being ready for everything. For example, here are my WODs for this week:

    WOD 1
    - 10 pull-ups
    - 135lb back squat x10
    - Hop on one leg x10
    5 rounds for time

    WOD 2
    - Run 400m
    - 45lb dumbbell snatch x30
    - Run 800m
    - 135 clean and jerk x10
    - Open and close a moderately heavy door x50

    WOD 3 "Steve"
    - Skip 400m
    - 100 double unders
    - 100 kipping push-ups
    - Skip 400m
    - 50 clapping box jumps
    - Squat up and down on toilet x50
    - Skip 400m

    Try to answer why you should do other CrossFit workouts and not mine.

    Edit: Forgot to mention another thing, the whole Pukie the Clown and Uncle Rabdo situation is just reckless. If you think working out until you puke is good training, you're just disrespecting and abusing your body. Similarly, I don't know how rhabdomyolysis, a very serious medical emergency, is somehow mentioned in a positive light.
    Last edited by quikky; 04-03-2013 at 11:38 PM.

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    heatseeker's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention another thing, the whole Pukie the Clown and Uncle Rabdo situation is just reckless. If you think working out until you puke is good training, you're just disrespecting and abusing your body. Similarly, I don't know how rhabdomyolysis, a very serious medical emergency, is somehow mentioned in a positive light.
    First of all, this is just old-school Crossfit posturing from a few meatheads that has somehow perpetuated as "things Crossfit people say/do". Puking and rhabdo have no place in any Crossfit gym you'd actually go to these days, and coaches are incredibly careful to educate their clients and help them avoid stuff like rhabdo. I say this with the actual experience of having worked out at several Crossfit boxes in several different places around the country (I travel a lot for yoga teaching and always drop in at Crossfit in whatever new city I visit). Rhabdo = not cool. There are always a few crazies in every sport that give the whole community a bad name, and that's what's happened here, but it is absolutely not a reason someone should stay away from Crossfit in general, because it's simply not true.

    In a past life I did CrossFit from the main site. I basically followed the WOD. My observations were as follows:

    - No thought is given to muscle/joint overuse. It was common to have a, for example, shoulder intensive workout on Monday, followed by a shoulder intensive workout on a Tuesday, followed by a, you guessed it, shoulder intensive workout on Wednesday. Look at the last 6 workouts: high rep clean and jerks, high rep thrusters and chest to bar pull-ups, 2.25km of rowing for time plus toe to bars, high rep jerks, push presses, overhead squats, and presses, burpee pull-ups and power cleans mixed together for time, max effort 2RM thrusters. Shoulder surgeons must love CrossFit.

    - Some workouts seem absolutely ridiculous. For example, if you can't do muscle-ups, the suggestion is to do 3 pull-ups and 3 dips for every muscle-up. There were workouts that would have you do literally 100+ pull-ups and dips for time.

    - Good lifts used for stupid purposes. There were often workouts that had you do Olympic lifts (cleans, snatches) either for high reps, or in between other exhaustive exercises. This neglects the main reason to do Olympic lifts, which is to develop power, and increases risk of injury. Jerking up a heavy barbell 15 times when you've just sprinted a lap and done 50 burpees is not simply hard - it's stupid.
    I defy you to find a Crossfit box that uses the main site's programming instead of creating their own programming. Can't be done. Crossfit gyms are affiliates, not franchises. They aren't beholden to the Crossfit site in any way. Nobody uses the main site, except seasoned trainers who maybe use the WODs for inspiration or put them together in complimentary ways to create a full week of programming. Just blindly doing the WODs on the site as they're posted is not doing Crossfit. You're missing the whole programming aspect. If you're not going to do Crossfit in an actual Crossfit gym with coaches, you need to be a trainer yourself and know how to program your own workouts using the tools given on the site.

    From a recovery standpoint, are the workouts designed in a way such that all muscle groups are utilized but not over-trained? Are the coaches focused on quality over quantity? Can the coaches explain precisely why they choose certain exercises and the set/rep schemes that they use? Can they explain the physiology behind the workouts and how it will positively affect your fitness?
    The answer to all these questions at all but one Crossfit box at which I've ever trained is yes. This is why people pay for it instead of just blindly doing the main site's WODs. You're paying for expert coaching and programming. And if the answer to any of these questions is "no", find a different box. The end.

    Anyone can come up with a bunch of random exercises and tell someone to do them for time. Then, when questioned, just say it's all about muscle confusion and being ready for everything.
    You're right. They can. They would, however, not be doing Crossfit.

    I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, and I'm really not trying to just jump down your throat, but you're using a lot of common misconceptions to try to prove why Crossfit is bad, and that's just lazy arguing.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatseeker View Post
    First of all, this is just old-school Crossfit posturing from a few meatheads that has somehow perpetuated as "things Crossfit people say/do". Puking and rhabdo have no place in any Crossfit gym you'd actually go to these days, and coaches are incredibly careful to educate their clients and help them avoid stuff like rhabdo. I say this with the actual experience of having worked out at several Crossfit boxes in several different places around the country (I travel a lot for yoga teaching and always drop in at Crossfit in whatever new city I visit). Rhabdo = not cool. There are always a few crazies in every sport that give the whole community a bad name, and that's what's happened here, but it is absolutely not a reason someone should stay away from Crossfit in general, because it's simply not true.
    This stuff is not coming from a few "meatheads" or "crazies", this is coming from CrossFit HQ. For example, the main site WOD is posted under an alias named "Pukie". This isn't some idiot trainer posting on his gym's site, this is THE CrossFit site. Of course, this doesn't mean they encourage puking, but there is a bit of a "nod" to it if you will, a bit of a sense of pride in how abusive they can make the workout. I think it's irresponsible and in poor taste.

    Tell other CrossFitters you puked after a WOD. Will they tell you to watch the intensity and not overdo it, like they should? Or, will they kind of smile and nod, acknowledging how tough CrossFit is? I suspect the latter. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Imagine if someone started a lifting web site where they posted lifting workouts daily under an alias "Johnny the Herniated Disc". Doesn't sound very professional or healthy, does it?

    Quote Originally Posted by heatseeker View Post
    I defy you to find a Crossfit box that uses the main site's programming instead of creating their own programming. Can't be done. Crossfit gyms are affiliates, not franchises. They aren't beholden to the Crossfit site in any way. Nobody uses the main site, except seasoned trainers who maybe use the WODs for inspiration or put them together in complimentary ways to create a full week of programming. Just blindly doing the WODs on the site as they're posted is not doing Crossfit. You're missing the whole programming aspect. If you're not going to do Crossfit in an actual Crossfit gym with coaches, you need to be a trainer yourself and know how to program your own workouts using the tools given on the site.
    I am not sure I follow you. So you're saying that you trust your local CrossFit coaches, that have been certified by CrossFit HQ, but you don't trust CrossFit HQ directly? It's like trusting the knowledge of the students more than the teachers. I understand the intensity of main site WODs might not be appropriate for many, but the programming? If HQ don't have the programming right, why do you think the local box does - they've been taught by HQ!

    Also, what makes the coaches experts? To open a CrossFit affiliated gym you need:

    - Level I CrossFit certification
    - Money

    Does this qualify you to structure intense workouts for a wide population to drive long-term adaptation in all physical domains, like CrossFit promises?

    Quote Originally Posted by heatseeker View Post
    You're right. They can. They would, however, not be doing Crossfit.

    I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, and I'm really not trying to just jump down your throat, but you're using a lot of common misconceptions to try to prove why Crossfit is bad, and that's just lazy arguing.
    CrossFit being unstructured and just random is not a misconception, it's the truth. If you think your local boxes have actual structured programming, can you explain the reasoning behind it? Pick any local WODs that you do, and ask the coaches why specifically they choose the exercises that they do, the rep ranges that they use, the interaction between the exercises, the workout-to-workout progress and recovery, and how they envision long term progress in all the different physical stats beyond just getting better at WODs due to general endurance adaptations. The response I always heard was the CrossFit party line of "increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains".

    I've never heard of a concrete explanation of the programming. For example (you can substitute your local WODs), here are two very recent consecutive workouts from the main site:

    WOD 1
    For time:
    115 pound Shoulder press, 10 reps
    115 pound Overhead squat, 15 reps
    115 pound Push press, 20 reps
    115 pound Front squat, 25 reps
    115 pound Push jerk, 30 reps
    115 pound Back squat, 35 reps

    WOD 2
    Row 1000 meters
    20 GHD sit-ups
    Row 750 meters
    40 Toes to bar
    Row 500 meters
    60 Sit-ups

    Find me a single person who can explain why those exact exercises were used, why for those rep ranges, why with those weights? Also, how does this fit, precisely, into a long-term plan and how will progress on all these things be measured?

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