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Thread: Two cents on cross fit wanted ? page 5

  1. #41
    RichMahogany's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    in my case, slow heavy lifting is more doable and puts on more muscle mass. In all likelihood it is because I am not athletic, so X-fit is too much above my head. Bummer, I really liked X-Fit style workouts.
    Or because what you call "slow heavy lifting" provides a more appropriate stimulus for adding muscle mass in a novice/detrained individual (that's not meant in a pejorative or derogatory manner, it's just a way to describe someone who's not already within spitting distance of their genetic strength potential).

  2. #42
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    I wish I was at the point where I was worried about scaling up the daily crossfit workouts. That won't be for a while, though.

    For me, Crossfit is ideal and I enjoy going five days a week. The box I go to seems to have a good plan for the WODs they design and I haven't witnessed anyone throwing up, getting injured, getting rhabado, etc. I scale the workouts as needed to push myself but to not go crazy. I use my own discretion.

    Maybe someday my goals will change and I'll look to do something else. For now, though, I am very happy with crossfit.

  3. #43
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    I stopped my Crossfit gym membership for a number of reasons that I won't go into here, but I have one simple and very relevant question for those who are pro Crossfit and on this forum:

    How is Crossfit not chronic cardio?

    At the box I was a member of, which is one of the largest and most well-respected on the East Coast, almost every session was a one hour chronic cardio session for 99% of the 'athletes', who were huffing and puffing like crazy 2 minutes into the warm-up. And the 'warm-up' was always at least 10 to 15 minutes long. Followed by a few minutes of instruction, followed by the WOD which was anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes. So, at best, we're taking 30 minutes (and usually closer to 60 at my box) of a very high heart rate. Oh, and unless you truly are an 'athlete', or you are NOT following the CrossFit ethos of 'giving it your all'/high intensity, then rest assured that you are doing chronic cardio (i.e., your heart rate is way high for an extended period of time).

    And here's the next million-dollar question: what benefit is there to doing olympic lifts quickly, over doing olympic lifts slowly? Isn't the goal to rip up muscle, in order to force an adaptation? I would think that that is done more efficiently by going at low intensity but with more weight?

    I'm not saying whether CrossFit is bad or good (although I can say with certainty that the 'Coach' that started it, and Dave Castro his lackey, are undeniably a couple of douchebags - I'm simply saying that talking about CrossFit in this forum, on this site, should be like going into an Alcoholics Anonymous forum and asking whether Jacquins Vodka is better than Absolut'! The only thing 'primal' about CrossFit is the movements themselves. Squatting, lifting, sprinting, is all great. But not strung together at high intensity, multiple times per week. That is the very definition of 'chronic cardio' and is not healthy for those who are not already very high level athletes.

    Now, as a once in a while 'sprint' session or a 'test yourself' session? Absolutely.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark2741 View Post
    And here's the next million-dollar question: what benefit is there to doing olympic lifts quickly, over doing olympic lifts slowly? Isn't the goal to rip up muscle, in order to force an adaptation? I would think that that is done more efficiently by going at low intensity but with more weight?
    This is one of my big points too. Doing Olympic lifts for high reps is a failure to understand the purpose behind Olympic lifts. Olympic lifts are tools for increasing power. Not strength per se, power. Power is strength over time, i.e. explosiveness. This is one the most fundamental metrics of athleticism. In almost any sport, basketball, football, MMA, tennis, heck, even golf, the athlete that can explode the best is almost always the better athlete.

    The body's power is centered at the hips, and decreases the more you go towards the extremities. Doing a power clean, for example, helps teach your body how to express strength very quickly, largely from the hips.

    Doing these lifts for high reps is too light to drive power increases, and too fatiguing to ensure proper form. Anyone who has done Olympic lifts knows that they can be very taxing. For example, this is why Starting Strength has you do power cleans for 5 sets but only 3 reps each. You quickly lose the ability to properly generate power with a heavy weight and form quickly begins to deteriorate.

    If the goal is conditioning, there are much better tools such as sprints, the Prowler, HIIT rower work, etc. I don't see a single good reason to do Olympic lifts for high reps.

  5. #45
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    I have a weird hatred of crossfit, ultimately I want everyone to be healthy however they so choose, but I'm 26, and was a soft out of shape kid in highschool, so I read fitness articles from all the big names and books, and I taught myself everything, all the things crossfit does have been around for years I just get mad that everyone pretends like it's brand new. Really? busting my ass will get me in shape? who knew! .....anyway....

    I don't think it's that great, lift heavy, get super strong, and buy the prowler from EliteFTS...

  6. #46
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    I haven't participated in this discussion despite following it closely because I just started CrossFit two and a half weeks ago and don't feel qualified to say anything. However, I have a question for all of you who hate CrossFit. What do you recommend for someone like me who isn't good at figuring out proper weight-lifting form by looking at pictures in books or watching Youtube videos? I've been lifting on my own for almost two years now with very little results and very poor form. The reason the results are poor is because I was afraid to go too heavy because I knew that I was doing everything wrong. At one point I did pay $80 for one personal training session at my gym, and it was the biggest waste of money ever. The trainer was a complete idiot who kept telling me to squat with my toes pointing forward, which, of course, I couldn't do, and I think is wrong because every time the topic of squats comes up in this forum, everyone says to do it with toes pointed slightly outward (and Starting Strength says the same thing--30 degrees outward). In any case, there is no way that I can afford a personal trainer on a regular basis, and personal trainers at my gym apparently suck anyway.

    So I decided to start CrossFit--if only to get some proper instruction. And, now, for the first time in my life, I feel like I can do a back squat properly. It really feels different when you do it right.

    And something like a kipping pullup. There's no way that I'd ever learn how to do one of those on my own. I could watch a million Youtube videos of other people doing it and never be able to figure it out. I need someone to watch me and tell me what I'm doing wrong and how to do it right (and physically move me to get me to do the right movement sometimes). Where the hell else am I going to get that kind of instruction?

    Plus, I love the group environment at CrossFit, and it gets me to push myself harder than I ever could on my own. I'm still doing on-ramp sessions (will start the real thing next week) so I really can't say anything about actual WODs, but so far it doesn't feel like chronic cardio to me. The cardio parts are fairly short (less than 20 minutes, and less than 10 on most days).

    Edit: I have to qualify the above by saying that I'm a chronic cardio addict--otherwise known as a runner so even if CrossFit turned out to be chronic cardio, I'd probably love it even more. Now, CrossFit has taken a toll on my running. I want to CrossFit all the time, and, sometimes, that means backing off on the running to avoid overtraining. Not really ideal considering the fact that I have a 10-mile race in three and a half weeks. But I sort of knew that would happen when I decided to start CrossFit three weeks ago instead of after the race.
    Last edited by diene; 04-09-2013 at 09:05 AM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by serenity View Post
    And something like a kipping pullup. There's no way that I'd ever learn how to do one of those on my own.
    Please explain the necessity of learning the kipping pullup.

    Your argument for CrossFit is that you spent $80 on an incompetent trainer, so personal trainers as a group are clearly not worthwhile?

    Again, what's your goal of training and why do you think CrossFit is the best program to help you achieve that goal? If your goal is to learn to squat, and you think CrossFit was the most efficient way to go about it (which is the main point of your post, I think), I disagree.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by serenity View Post
    I haven't participated in this discussion despite following it closely because I just started CrossFit two and a half weeks ago and don't feel qualified to say anything. However, I have a question for all of you who hate CrossFit. What do you recommend for someone like me who isn't good at figuring out proper weight-lifting form by looking at pictures in books or watching Youtube videos? I've been lifting on my own for almost two years now with very little results and very poor form. The reason the results are poor is because I was afraid to go too heavy because I knew that I was doing everything wrong. At one point I did pay $80 for one personal training session at my gym, and it was the biggest waste of money ever. The trainer was a complete idiot who kept telling me to squat with my toes pointing forward, which, of course, I couldn't do, and I think is wrong because every time the topic of squats comes up in this forum, everyone says to do it with toes pointed slightly outward (and Starting Strength says the same thing--30 degrees outward). In any case, there is no way that I can afford a personal trainer on a regular basis, and personal trainers at my gym apparently suck anyway.

    So I decided to start CrossFit--if only to get some proper instruction. And, now, for the first time in my life, I feel like I can do a back squat properly. It really feels different when you do it right.

    And something like a kipping pullup. There's no way that I'd ever learn how to do one of those on my own. I could watch a million Youtube videos of other people doing it and never be able to figure it out. I need someone to watch me and tell me what I'm doing wrong and how to do it right (and physically move me to get me to do the right movement sometimes). Where the hell else am I going to get that kind of instruction?

    Plus, I love the group environment at CrossFit, and it gets me to push myself harder than I ever could on my own. I'm still doing on-ramp sessions (will start the real thing next week) so I really can't say anything about actual WODs, but so far it doesn't feel like chronic cardio to me. The cardio parts are fairly short (less than 20 minutes, and less than 10 on most days).

    Edit: I have to qualify the above by saying that I'm a chronic cardio addict--otherwise known as a runner so even if CrossFit turned out to be chronic cardio, I'd probably love it even more. Now, CrossFit has taken a toll on my running. I want to CrossFit all the time, and, sometimes, that means backing off on the running to avoid overtraining. Not really ideal considering the fact that I have a 10-mile race in three and a half weeks. But I sort of knew that would happen when I decided to start CrossFit three weeks ago instead of after the race.
    Have you read the Starting Strength book? If you have, have toy posted videos of your lifts on the SS forum for critique? If you have, have you checked to see if there's a Starting Strength coach in your area that you can meet with?

    That aside, you'd be better off not knowing how to do kipping pull-ups. They're only useful for CrossFit, not for strength or the health of your shoulders.

  9. #49
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    I'm starting Cross Fit today and checked out the WOD online. It actually seems like a doable ass kicking workout. However, I can see where you could really get injured IF you do try and do the movements to fast for your fitness. I guess my question would be, how intense is the push to be really fast? Like are the coaches in your face telling you "quicker".
    My old class, they would NEVER push you to go faster on weighted exercise. They might get in your face to punch faster or row faster or sprint faster. But if it was weighted, the focus was 100% on your form.
    I'm of the mindset that if someone told me to do deadlifts faster, I'd ignore their urging.

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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    I'm starting Cross Fit today and checked out the WOD online. It actually seems like a doable ass kicking workout. However, I can see where you could really get injured IF you do try and do the movements to fast for your fitness. I guess my question would be, how intense is the push to be really fast? Like are the coaches in your face telling you "quicker".
    My old class, they would NEVER push you to go faster on weighted exercise. They might get in your face to punch faster or row faster or sprint faster. But if it was weighted, the focus was 100% on your form.
    I'm of the mindset that if someone told me to do deadlifts faster, I'd ignore their urging.
    Just like with any other paid membership where you have coaching, you will find out right away if your Crossfit gym is quality or not. Is there an urge during some WODs to do deadlifts at a faster pace? Yes, at some point, a WOD like that might come up. In a quality program, this type of work out would be a lighter deadlift (for example, "as perscribed", the deadlift might be 115 lbs. However, that should not be your one rep max, so in a workout with higher rep for time deadlifts, you would probably scale that weight down even further). Again, if the place you are going to is quality, they will urge form over speed any day. The object is not to get people hurt.

    People get hurt in Crossfit mostly because their ego gets away from them and they do too much, too fast, too soon. I am a shorter, lighter person so for the most part, I usually am one of the last to finish in my gym, and do so usually with less weight than other people. That being said, my coaches have NEVER pushed me past my limits or encouraged anything other than great form during any type of lift.

    I paid for a personal trainer once that tried to instruct the kettlebell swing. I practically threw my back out learning, because he did not stress good form, and was out of the game for two weeks. That was with a really light kettlebell, too. When I relearned the swing at my Crossfit gym, I learned it the right way, and now am doing safe, effective American swings at 35 lbs. Does that mean all personal trainers are horrible and all Crossfit gyms are great? Of course not. Crossfit is fun and effective for me.
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