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    Lacto ovo paleo experiment

    Primal Fuel
    This is my first post from this username (I forgot my old one because I haven't been on here in a long time). I've been primal for about 18 months now and feel quite good. Lately, though, I've been branching out in my reading, delving into some Ray Peat/Perfect Health research, and it's got me wondering whether I should experiment with some other slightly different WOE's.

    Specifically, I've noticed that even after being STRICT paleo for a long time, I still feel SO much better, more satisfied, and less hungry when I add a sweet potato into my diet (still keeping my carbs below 70g), whether or not I'm working out that day. I've also noticed that I have intense hypoglycemic episodes when I have just muscle meat... but this doesn't seem to happen when I get my protein from cheese.

    I'm thinking about exploring a sort of "lacto ovo paleo" thing... replacing most of my meat protein (which doesn't make me feel very good) with dairy (mostly cheese and yogurt... probably no milk) or eggs, and incorporating more starch (rather than strictly greens).

    The wrench in this is that I don't want to modify my exercise. I do a LOT of walking (live in a major city) and dance once or twice per week, and I'm quite lean and reasonably muscular. I'm very happy with my body composition... just trying to fiddle with my eating, because it doesn't make sense that I'm still so hungry and unsatisfied after almost two years of clean paleo.

    Thoughts? Has anyone done anything similar before? Think I'll see major changes in body composition?

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    Also, because I know people will ask:

    Female, age 24, 5'8, 130lbs (I think? Haven't weighed myself in a long time).

    Typical day is:
    Brunch: 2 eggs, 4 pieces of bacon, a whole avocado and a tomato. All cooked in a tablespoon of ghee (which alone is around 135 calories, 15g fat)
    Dinner: 8 oz chicken, lots of olives, big pile of braised cabbage (cooked in ghee)
    If I'm hungry at any other point in the day, I'll have a snack of cocoa nibs or macadamia nuts

    Any of these meals leaves me hungry again within the hour. But I've noticed that if I have cheese instead of my meat, I feel so much better... but I'm reluctant to make that a consistent part of my diet because many people fear the insulin factor

  3. #3
    Forgotmylastusername's Avatar
    Forgotmylastusername is offline Senior Member
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    Nice display name. lol

    Try different meals and macros at different times. I don't feel like a meal in the morning so I have some nuts and fruit until I have a meal in the late afternoon. The thought of a cooked meal, or even cooking a meal, in the morning makes me queasy. ANd if you feel better eating more starch, then eat more starch.

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    Dragonfly's Avatar
    Dragonfly is offline Senior Member
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    I would be hungry if that is all I ate at your weight & height!

    Read this: Does dairy make you fat? | Cogito Ergo Edo

    You are likely to be deficient in some micronutrients if you only eat muscle meats & no dairy, (like K2 , retinol and possibly Magnesium.) Do you eat liver & other organ meats? How is your D3 blood level?
    Last edited by Dragonfly; 03-31-2013 at 02:10 AM.

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    [QUOTE=Dragonfly;1143321]I would be hungry if that is all I ate at your weight & height!

    Read this: Does dairy make you fat? | Cogito Ergo Edo

    You are likely to be deficient in some micronutrients if you only eat muscle meats & no dairy, (like K2 , retinol and possibly Magnesium.) Do you eat liver & other organ meats? How is your D3 blood level?experiment

    excellent read, dragonfly, thanks so much. That's actually a topic I've been researching often... But I've never seemed to find a straight answer as to whether dairy protein stimulates glucagon until this article. Seems to definitively put to bed the claims people make that dairy calories make them fatter than other calories.

    No I dont eat a lot liver/organs... That's something might start looking into, when I learn how to shop for/cook them.

  6. #6
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    I would be hungry if that is all I ate at your weight & height!

    Read this: Does dairy make you fat? | Cogito Ergo Edo

    You are likely to be deficient in some micronutrients if you only eat muscle meats & no dairy, (like K2 , retinol and possibly Magnesium.) Do you eat liver & other organ meats? How is your D3 blood level?
    Once again, PK hits it out of the park.

    And I second the motion about eating the "Odd Bits" of the animal, not just muscles. Also think about some seafood. Oysters, salmon, sardines. All good for what ails ya. If you do decide to go lacto ovo only, consider the pescatarian option too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForgotMyOldUsername View Post
    Typical day is:
    Brunch: 2 eggs, 4 pieces of bacon, a whole avocado and a tomato. All cooked in a tablespoon of ghee (which alone is around 135 calories, 15g fat)
    Dinner: 8 oz chicken, lots of olives, big pile of braised cabbage (cooked in ghee)
    If I'm hungry at any other point in the day, I'll have a snack of cocoa nibs or macadamia nuts

    Any of these meals leaves me hungry again within the hour.
    is that even 1200 cals?

    even a mountain of chicken leaves me hungry soon after so i've just stopped eating it.

    do you have an issue abut red meat? you eat bacon, so why not other 4-legged critters? as mentioned, you need to add fish, shellfish, red meat and oogly bits.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

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    I just started something similar, except I eat very little dairy (mostly high quality kefir/yogurt) and eat copious amounts of eggs, and the occasional fish/shellfish. 75% or so vegetarian, 75% paleo-vegan. I eat probably 1000 calories in fats from coconut (oil/milk/cream) and almond products (raw butter/raw almonds/mil) alone. I also eat a ton of organic potatoes of all varieties. I'm not convinced that for some ethno-groups (being Irish as one of them), that there is anything harmful from eating potatoes of all varieties. Along with the eggs, dairy, and fish, you get all the BCAA's you should need.

    If you are going to cut out any meat product, I'd cut out processed foods like salami and factory-raided meats first. Then, bacon would be the next to go, even nitrate free bacon is usually high in preservatives and it is such an inferior cut of meat. I'm also a bit biased against pork-- I grew up butchering them and it's like butchering dogs or chimps.

    The benefits of Lacto-ovo paleo is that you can buy 100% organic ingredients for nearly the same price as a meat-eater who can't afford grass-fed products. It also takes away your crutches, because no longer can you get a burger from McDonalds and throw away the bun, thinking you found a paleo feast.

  9. #9
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    Is there a reason you prefer to be low carb? You could easily add in squash, sweet potato, etc and move up on your carbs a bit. I agree with the addition of some non-muscle meats - organs, bone broth, and whole fish esp.

    Finally, I have been reading a bit about digestion and stomach acid and have read that if you don't feel very well after eating meat it may suggest reduced stomach acid or digestive enzyme production. Do you have any GI issues?
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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