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Thread: ketosis = oxidized lipoproteins? page 5

  1. #41
    KimchiNinja's Avatar
    KimchiNinja is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumifer View Post
    "Medical doctors—although often well-meaning– may be the singularly least qualified persons to offer nutritional recommendations. ... hospitals are profit-oriented institutions…and the advice you get there may not be in your own best interest ... The same may unfortunately be said for many “natural health care providers” that are often as beholding to the interests of neutraceutical companies as allopathic physicians are beholding to drug companies. ... Conventional nutritionists and dieticians ... are bound to the dictates of the unfounded and enormously unscientific USDA Food Pyramid. However well-meaning, these folks have been “indoctrinated” and fully trained by a complex, very corporate-driven system determined to retain considerable political and economic power. Finally, the media on nearly all fronts are utterly bound by the interests of their advertisers"

    So she went down the list and declared that no one -- NO ONE AT ALL -- is to be trusted.
    She's correct though.

  2. #42
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumifer View Post
    Nora says the only good level of glutamate is zero, right? Anything higher than zero "does some degree of neurological damage".

    Okay, where do we find glutamate except in that devils-spawn MSG? Why, a quick look at Wikipedia tells us that "All meats, poultry, fish, eggs, dairy products, and kombu are excellent sources of glutamic acid."


    I'm cursed (or maybe blessed, opinions vary) with a highly sensitive BS meter. Especially when people try to use lots of fancy scientific-y words because I usually know what these words actually mean. Nora triggers my BS meter quite strongly. So I'll pass and accept the possible loss.
    You're taking comments she made about MSG and trans fats under the heading of "one of the worst mistake that one can make while dieting is to believe that junk food 'in moderation' is OK" totally out of context. In that context saying all MSG is bad MSG makes sense. And there is no real safe amount of trans fat.

    She sees neurological consequences in her clients for every dietary misstep as do I, (e.g. seizures after indulging in coffee or alcohol.) Some people have said that I am needlessly strict with my diet but I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    She's correct though.
    Exactly.

    The funny thing is, Lumifer, from having read several of your other posts recently and agreeing with them all, I really think you would enjoy Nora's book.

  3. #43
    JoanieL's Avatar
    JoanieL is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Americans are really obsessed with "science".
    How can Americans be really obsessed with science, when most of them can't convert a fraction to a decimal? Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a snob, but really, without basic math skills, you're flying blind.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

  4. #44
    s-piper's Avatar
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    Lumifer: I have access to scientific journals for free. If you really want to read the paper, I'll get it for you but otherwise I'm not going to waste my time downloading it.

    Your assessment of the finding is true, although solid proof that ketosis prevents AD will be very hard to get because:
    1. Good luck funding that kind of study.
    2. Good luck getting people to adhere to a ketogeneic diet, even only intermittently. The only group I can think you might have a snowball's chance in hell of getting to are bodybuilders.
    I'm not saying I believe it's true. It'd be nice if it were, but there isn't enough evidence either way.

    Yeah, Nora's claims are exaggerated but so are Mark's, and Robb Wolf's, and every person who's written a nutrition book for lay audeiences.
    I'm not saying trust her implicitly, but I've read her book and nothing she said was anything more than Primal 101.
    Same for the list you mentioned from her website. Especially the part you highlighed about labels like 'natural' and 'organic' being useless. I mean...they pretty much are.


    Zach: "Ketosis will kill you dead"-Citation?

  5. #45
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s-piper View Post
    Lumifer: I have access to scientific journals for free. If you really want to read the paper, I'll get it for you but otherwise I'm not going to waste my time downloading it.
    REALLY???? Ooooooh yes. I want to read it even if Lumifer doesn't. The neuro-protective effects of ketosis are rather important to me. I would be forever in your debt if you would download that one for me. Pretty please?

  6. #46
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    Paleobird: Sure, no problem. It will be downloaded as a PDF, so how do you want me to get it to you?

  7. #47
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s-piper View Post
    Paleobird: Sure, no problem. It will be downloaded as a PDF, so how do you want me to get it to you?
    I will PM info.

  8. #48
    Lumifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s-piper View Post
    Lumifer: I have access to scientific journals for free. If you really want to read the paper, I'll get it for you but otherwise I'm not going to waste my time downloading it.
    Thank you for the offer, I'm fine with the abstract.

    Quote Originally Posted by s-piper View Post
    ...solid proof that ketosis prevents AD will be very hard to get
    Yep, pretty much impossible, unless you can get there through biochemistry -- it is very interesting that ApoE4 version confers propensity to AD *and* affects lipid metabolism...

    Quote Originally Posted by s-piper View Post
    Yeah, Nora's claims are exaggerated but so are Mark's, and Robb Wolf's, and every person who's written a nutrition book for lay audeiences.
    The Jaminets are pretty good in this regard, for example. Alternatively, the solution is not to read books written for lay audiences :-) Though bushwacking through PubMed isn't for those easily confused :-D

    Quote Originally Posted by s-piper View Post
    Especially the part you highlighed about labels like 'natural' and 'organic' being useless. I mean...they pretty much are.
    I didn't highlight that part. But yeah, they are, and I don't need to read a book to figure this out. I don't buy or eat organic and that's generally met with a mixture of pity and outrage in the paleo/primal/LC circles :-D

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    How can Americans be really obsessed with science, when most of them can't convert a fraction to a decimal? Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a snob, but really, without basic math skills, you're flying blind.
    LOL exactly, that's what makes them so dangerous.

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