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Thread: Primal Journey (Cryptocode)

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Norco, California

    Primal Journey (Cryptocode)

    I started PB 11/10/12

    The diseases for which I came to PB, looking for a cure:

    1. The tendency or desire to vomit while or after eating was gone in 2 days. (GERD)
    2. The heavy gastric production of mucus which caused drooling in sleep was gone in 1 week
    3. The IBS gas and water bloating was 90% gone in 2 weeks. (IBS)
    4. At 3 weeks I began taking Milk of Magnesia every other day instead of every day.
    5. At 4 weeks the ability to control urine outflow returned (I'd been afraid I'd have to wear diapers.)
    6. After 5 weeks my completely dead bowel began working again. Peristalsis returned.
    7. At 6 weeks I began taking Vits. D3 and C (mainly to prevent hair loss) and Magnesium Citrate (800 mg) to soften my stools.
    8. At 7 weeks I bought Mark's Damage Control Package (vitamins and minerals). I'd already been taking prebiotics and probiotics, etc.
    8. At 8 weeks my ‘bleeder’ condition ceased. All the permanent indigo bruises on my arms started going away, and I no longer bled continuously when my skin was torn or pierced.

    At 2.5 months my stools are softer now but I’m still constipated. But some IBS remains at the best of days, and on the worst, after 2-3 days of no Milk of Magnesia (MOM) is really bad and painful. Also the process of moving water from my stomach to my bladder is very slow, about 8 hours. So although I was trying to extend the time inbetween MOM, as soon as I was constipated (any straining at all needed), I'd take MOM that evening.

    At 3 months I started reading Fiber Menace and added Potassium. At 4 months I was down to MOM every 4-5 days and had finished reading Fiber Menace. That is a fantastic book that everyone here should read. During this month I was experiementing with how much Potassium I needed, cutting capsules or tablets in half. At 4.25 months I declared complete success. No more MOM needed. (Also I've become one of those nuts who examine their stools daily to see how things are going. Sure never thought I'd do that.)

    The "sensitivities" listed above are not considered serious by Doctors. Not until they become "diseases". But they caused sufficient misery to convince me I was dying. I couldn't stand up unaided. When I did stand up my leg muscles shook so violently my husband could see them shaking easily.

    The next catagory I have to deal with are the diseases doctors consider sufficiently serious to watch until they require an operation, and possibly to treat the symptoms of:
    Pre-cancerous polyps
    Ulcerative Colitis
    Osteroporosis - right hip neck is at 2.5 std. - Take Calcium
    Hypertension - Take ACE Inhibitor, 2.5mg Lisinopril
    Anemia, Iron Deficient - Take iron

    After these diseases are fully developed the next progression is colon cancer. Then the doctors can do something about that - they cut out part of all of the colon.

    April 11 I have an appointment for a colonoscopy. A few weeks after that I'll find out the results of the G.I. ones.

    I also have Familial hypercholesterolaemia, an inherited condition characterised by higher than normal levels of LDL blood cholesterol. Familial hypercholesterolaemia causes up to 10 per cent of early onset coronary artery disease – heart disease that occurs before the age of 55 years. The cause is a mutation in a gene. About one in every 300 Australians is thought to be affected. Other names for familial hypercholesterolaemia include familial hyperlipidaemia, hypercholesterolaemic xanthomatosis and low density lipoprotein receptor mutation.

    I have no gall-bladder and no appendix.
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 06-20-2013 at 03:07 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    MA, USA
    Hey Cryptocode, I hope the colonoscopy comes back with a glowing report of health!

    Are you still taking the Potassium tablets?

    BTW, I tried the Potassium. I don't know if it was that or the Vitamin C and Magnesium Citrate I took, but it flushed right through me (all friggin' day)! If I try it again, it'll be on a weekend, with no other supplements within a 24 hr period beforehand .
    Depression Lies

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Norco, California
    I didn't start a Journal earlier because I didin't (and don't) think I'll keep it up. I also didn't know if I'd stick with PB. Currently I've become rather irritated with some of the people on the forums. I'm working on that.

    What is the purpose of this Journal? For others? for me. For a food log? ? Maybe just to write out my thoughts and emotions.

    Page of frequent contacts: - NamelessWonder - AnnieH - GladMorning - Itchy166 - Paleobird - sbhikes - canio6 - Valmason01 - knifegill - TimTheTaco - not recent

    Revolution Health Radio (RHR) – Chris Kresser
    Paleo Solution – Robb Wolf and Greg Everett
    Everyday Paleo Lifestyle & Fitness – Sarah Fragoso and Jason Seib
    Jimmy Moore (He has 3 podcasts)
    Balanced Bites – Diane Sanfilippo and Liz Wolfe
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 09-30-2013 at 04:48 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Norco, California

    Our household is composed of my husband Richard (Dick) and I who have been married for 53 years, and 2 dogs. We're both 75 years old. Our children are a girl, Lori, and a boy, Rob. We also have 2 beagles, Zuno and Lulu.

    We live in Norco,CA aka Horsetown, USA. Until the '08 recession it had 1.5 times more horses than people in town. It has other large animals, several bison and camels, a giraffe, a good number of cows, and lamas. Medium sized animals are commonly sheep, goats, and vicuna. We moved here in 1973 after a 2 year search for a decent place to bring up our children. At the time we lived in Huntington Beach where a large, new High School had opened. It was the first one in the state to have cops on campus because it already had a huge drug problem. We didn't want this future for our children. Our search was limited to a commuting drive time for Dick. Norco had no drug problems, one of the highest college attendance rates, a 1/2 ac. minimum lot size, and 2 cops who knew every child in town and where they were. (It's a small town by CA statndards, 20,000 plus a prison.)

    The move was a radical life-style change for us, from boats, scuba gear and surfboards to horses. (Lori went horse-crazy at the age of 9.) Lori and Rob joined 4-H and later FFA. I switched from brownie leader to horse, then goat leader. We raised, over time, chickens, goats, pigs, a few cows, horses, and rabbits. Rob joined the local Boy Scouts. With friends he hunted the local hills, armed with b-b guns and air-rifles. Rob earned his Eagle Scout and because a Scout Leader. They graduated from College and left home. Dick and I and 2 beagles remain on 7.5 acres with 3 houses and a large barn in the middle of the now 'old' part of town. We don't want to move. Lori has returned home after being a Federal Agent and lives in one of the houses. Rob has his own business in San Bernardino, nearby (1/2 hour). All our friends are here.

    Lori ( married and had a son, Jason. Her husband, was one of the most-decorated Veterans and a parapelegic. He worked for the VA insuring that the benefits due were received by the widows of those wounded or dead. Doug loved his Corvette and would not allow the VA to adapt it to all-hand controls. He died on New Year's Eve after a party, speeding home, slid on black ice and the 'vette exploded on hitting a freeway divider. Jason is now in the Army and has served a tour in Afganistan. He is a sniper.

    Rob ( has a daughter, Brooke, now a Senior in H.S.. She lives with her mother in Oklahoma. He is married to Tina from Roanoke, VA, who is a wonderful cook.

    I'm a committed PBer. Dick is moving toward it very slowly.
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 09-07-2013 at 01:05 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    MA, USA
    For me, the journal started off as a food log. I was figuring out what fit and didn't within a "Primal" frame. After that, it was to sort out my thoughts and identify what feels "right" and "wrong" to me, in terms of my thought process and beliefs. I've thought sometimes I will give up the regular journaling here, but I like to get feedback and know that someone is reading. I've written to myself, in handwritten journals, for most of my life, and I have found that is not quite enough for me anymore.

    I like the comradery among many of the journalers. We have a lot of people here with good senses of humor. Some people just write about their lives and get a discussion going. Some people post food logs for reference and feedback, with some specific goal in mind.
    Depression Lies

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Norco, California
    Before PB or Why I tried PB

    On HS Grad. I weighed 124. On College Grad. I weighed 145, due to eating in the Mess Hall. After giving birth twice and nursing I weighed 124. Between then and retirement I slowly gained and on retirement I weighed 187 and wore a size 22W.

    One year later Dick and I joined Jenny Craig. Three rather food painful years of calorie restriction later I weighed 140 and Dick had lost as much.

    Two years later I had an Abdominal Aortic Aneurism operation. I was told it would take about 6 mo - 1 year to recover. But I didn't seem to recover much at all, perhaps 1/4 - 1/3 of my previous strength and energy. One year later I had IBS and periods of diahrea and constipation. Then it settled into premanent constipation. I was on statins, an ACE inhibitor, 2 sleeping aids, 2000 mg Niacin, and Milk of Magnesia (MOM) permanently with various intermittant additional prescriptions. With all this my TC hovered around 360.

    All my life I had unquestionly followed 'doctors orders' and eaten the common SAD diet. Now I was seeing doctors almost weekly asking them to fix me. I had yeast infections, occasional bouts of dehydration, and tons of other complaints. I was getting more and more frustrated and more and more sick. Even my mind was slowly slipping into a permanent fog. Then dizzyness started when I stood up from sitting or lying. My sence of balance was getting progressively worse. Doctor's and nurse's responded as though these were normal effects of aging. But I clearly remember my grandparents and great-grandparents and know they didn't have any problems this severe. As time went by my medical chart included the names of more and more diseases. The doctors added these but otherwise made no comment. Just normal aging.

    Then for the last 1.5 years I began getting weaker and weaker and sicker and sicker and more and more doctors. The last week I was mostly in bed in total misery and pain. Bad pain. I couldn't stand up without assistance. I couldn't remain standing without assistance and my leg muscles shook so violently Dick could see them easily. I had long crying periods at night. I thought I was dying and I wanted to die. Long life is good but only in good health. I didn't want to live another day like this.

    My last visit to my G.P. I spent emoting at him. He listened. When I stopped he said nothing. I started emoting again. He wasn't getting the point, wasn't listening, "do something" I wanted to shout at him. I stopped again. He said nothing. Then I said "You want me to take responsibility for this myself?" He said yes, smiled, and looked relieved. That was crazy. I couldn't do that. I started emoting again. He got up and left the room. I went home crying.

    (I have absolutely no knowledge of any life science. I had taken a required biology class in HS and psychology 101 in college. I'd joined a volunteer nurses aid group in JHS and fainted at the sight of blood. Any life science confused me, they didn't seem to have any facts to hang on to at all. A lot of talk. I stayed far away.)

    I was very sick, weak, very angry and very frustrated. I shouted (silently) at the world "All right damnit! I will." And turned to the internet where I found PB.

    When I started PB I just dumped all medications and OTC supplements cold (and all past and future doctor's advice). Except the ACE inhibitor.
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 03-30-2013 at 01:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Norco, California
    Clearly I'm concentrating on the Nutrition part of PB. I've read the book. I figure I'll get to the exercise part of it when I have the energy.

    Yesterday I ate & took
    B - 2 bacon, 2 eggs, salt, pepper, tumeric, 2 cups coffee w 1/2 & /12.
    L - 1.5 cup chopped greens sauteed in coconut oil with 1 slice chopped anchovy, 1/2 can tuna fish, 1 sliced turnip raw w salt, handful macademia nuts, 1 cup Greek yogurt.
    D - Liver & onions, brussel sprouts, salt & pepper, Handfull of chocolate chips.
    1 packet DM, 1 Mg, 3 Omega-3, 2 Glucosamine, 1 Iron (I'm anemic), 4 D3, 1 liquid anitoxident, 1 C, approx. 1.5 mg Melationin before bed.

    Today I ate and took:
    B - 2 eggs, salt, pepper, tumeric, 2 cups coffee w 1/2 & /12, 2 oz goat cheese (I'm out of bacon)
    L - Sauerkraut, Salami, 1 Greek Yogurt
    D - Red Snapper, Califlower, 1/3 sweet potato
    - --
    1 packet DM, 1 Mg, 3 Omega-3, 2 Glucosamine, 1 Iron, 4 D3, 1 liquid anitoxident, 1 C, 1 potassium; 2 mg Melatonin before bed.

    So, this time the Melatonin seemed to have no effect. Yesterday my BM was late and hard. I did nothing. This morning it was early and harder. Tonight I'll take 1/2 P. Instead of Melatonin I'll try GABA.

    The first time I tried Melatonin for sleep I was amazed. Before PB I'd taken the 3 mg and later the 5 mg for maybe 3 years, with no obvious effect. 3 Nights ago I took one 3mg and it knocked me out so fast I was worried I wouldn't make it into bed before I concked out. This indicated to me that a lot of my problems were caused by inflamation. My body was severely malnurished; it couldn't absorb most of what was put into it. Now it absorbs well.

    I relate this to the recent announcement by the FDA to stop recommending Calcium to osteoporosis patients because no benefit at all is shown. Every doctor I saw in the last 5 years advised calcium. I took a boatload of it. To no effect. Only one doctor advised also taking Vit. D. Calcium requires D3, K2 and Mg to have any chance at being absorbed. 50% of all Americans over 50 years have IBS (inflamation). No wonder calcium supplements do no good. (See, after only 5 months on PB I think I'm so smart.) Why doesn't my GP know all this? I remember my Grandmother's G.P., when we stayed with her during the war. He came to her house and checked all of us when he came to treat her. He knew us all well and treated each as a whole person. He talked with us of many things other than medicine and was a good friend of the family.
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 03-31-2013 at 11:40 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Norco, California
    Useful tests - from "Diabetes Solution" by Richard K. Bernstein, M.D.

    Glycated Hemoglobin (HgbA(IC))
    Glucose binds to hemoglobin (the pigment of red blood cells) when new red cells are manufactured. Since the average red cell survives about 4 months, the percentage of hemoglobin molecules that contain glucose (HgbA(1C)) provides an estimate of average blood sugar over this time frame. If your HgbA(1C) is elevated, then you have a clue that something is awry.
    The upper and lower ranges of ‘normal’ values reported by most labs are usually erroneously high and low, respectively.
    A normal value should correspond to blood sugars of about 75-86 mg/dl with a range of 4.2 to 4.6%, corresponding to blood sugars of about 72-86 mg/dl. A recent study of non-diabetics showed a 28% increase in mortality for every 1% increase in HgbA(1C) above 4.9%.
    Because the blood contains more recently made red cells than older ones, recent blood sugars have more of an effect on HgbA(1C) than do earlier blood sugars. The test value therefore levels off after about three months. Any ailment that hastens red blood cell loss will cause a deceptive shortening of the time frame reflected by HgfA(1C). Such ailments include liver and kidney disease, blood loss, hemoglobinopathies, etc. High doses of Vit C & E can cause deceptive lowering, and low serum levels of thyroid hormones can cause an increase without increasing blood sugars.

    Serum C-peptide (Fasting)
    C-peptide is a protein produced by the beta cells of the pancreas whenever insulin is made. The level of C-peptide in the blood is a crude index of the amount of insulin you’re producing. The level is usually zero in type 1 diabetics, and within or above the “normal range” in mild type 2 obese (insulin-resistant) diabetics If your serum C-peptide is elevated, this would suggest that your blood sugar may be controllable merely by diet, weight loss and exercise. If, at the other extreme, your C-peptide is below the limits of measurability, you probably require injected insulin for blood sugar normalization. C-peptide measurements, to be most significant, should be checked after an 8-hour fast when blood sugars are normal. The test can be best interpreted if blood sugar is measured at the same time, because in non-diabetics high blood sugars cause more insulin (and C-peptide) production than do low blood sugars.

    Complete Blood Count (CBC)
    Part of most medical workups, this is a routine diagnostic test that can disclose the presence of ailments other than diabetics. A CBC measures the number of various types of cells found in your blood – white cells, red cells and platelets. A high level of white blood cells , for example can disclose the presence of infection, while too few red blood cells can indicate anemia. Many diabetics have inherited thyroid dysfunction, which can cause low-normal to low white cell counts. A white cell count less than 5.6 suggests that a full thyroid profile should be performed. This must include free and total T3 and T4.

    Standard Blood Chemistry Profile
    This battery of 12 – 20 tests is part of most routine medical examinations. It includes gauges for such important chemical indication of health as liver enzymes, blood urea nitrogen (BUN), creatinine, alkaline phosphatase, calcium and others. If you have a history of hypertension, red blood cell magnesium to this profile.

    Serum Ferritin
    This is a measure of total body iron stores. Although usually used for diagnosing iron deficiency anemia, high ferritin levels can cause insulin resistance and type 2 diabetics. Sometines this form of diabetes can be treated by diet, exercise, and regular blood donation.

    Serum Albumin
    Although serum albumin is usually included in the blood chemistry profile, it is not widely appreciated that low levels are associated with double the all-cause mortality of normal levels. It is thus very important that patients with low serum albumin receive further tests to determine the cause.

    Serum Globulin
    Globulins are antibodies produced by the immune system. They help the body to fight off infections and malignancy. If you experience frequent colds, sinusitis, diarrhea, cancer, or slow-healing infections of any type, you may have an immunoglobulin deficiency. If your total serum globulins are low or even low normal, you should be tested for specific immunoglobulins, such as IgA, IgG, and IgM. We recently published evidence that at least 19% of diabetics have an inherited immune disorder (common variable immunodeficiency, or CVID) that may be treatable.

    Cardiac Risk Factors
    This is a battery of tests that measure substances in the blood that may predispose you to arterial and heart disease.
    IMPORTANT NOTE: Sometimes, long before or even months to years after a pateint has experienced normal or near-normal blood sugars and resultant improvements in the cardiac risk profile, we might see deterioration in the results of tests such as those for LDL, HDL, homocysteine, fibrinogen, and lipoprotein(a). All too often, the patient will blame his diet. Inevitably, however, we find upon further testing that his thyroid activity has declined. Hypothyroidism is an autoimmune disorder, like diabetes, and is frequently inherited by diabetics and their close relatives. It can appear years before or after the development of diabetes and is not caused by high blood sugars. In fact, hypothyroidism can cause a greater likelihood of abnormalities in the cardiac risk profile than can blood sugar elevation. The treatment of low-thyroid condition is oral replacement of the deficient hormone(s) – usually 1-3 pills daily. The best screening test is free T3 as measured by tracer dialysis. If this is low, then a full thyroid test profile should be performed. Correction of the thyroid deficiency inevitably corrects the abnormalities of cardiac risk factors that it caused. TSH, the inexpensive thyroid test performed by most physicians, does not correlate as well with symptoms of hypothyroidism as free T3. The goal for these patients is to use supplemental T3 and T4 to get free T3 and free T4 to the middle of the normal range.

    Lipid Profile
    This profile measures fatty substances (lipids) in your blood and includes total cholesterol, HDL (high-density lipoprotein), triglycerides, and “real” LDL 9low-density lipoprotein). Other cardiac risk factors (discussed below) include C-reactive protein, fibrinogen, lipoprotein(a), and homocysteine, and may be more predictive. Abnormalities indicated by these tests are frequently treatable and tend to improve with normalization of blood sugars. These tests should be performed after you have fasted for at least 8 hours.
    Most of the cholesterol in our bodies, both good and bad, is made in the liver; it does not come from eating so-called heart attack foods.

    Thrombotic risk profile
    This profile includes levels of fibrinogen, C-reactive protein, and lipoprotein(a). These are also “acute phase reactants,” or substances that reflect ongoing infection or other inflammation. These three substances are associated with increased tendency of blood to clot or form infarcts (blockages or arteries) in people who have had sustained high blood sugars.
    In the cases of elevated fibrinogen or lipoprotein(a), there is, additionally, often an increased risk of kidney impairment or retinal disease. Obesity, even without diabetes, can cause elevation of C-reactive protein. In my experience, all these tests are more potent indicators of impending heat attack than the lipid profile. Treatments are available for elevations of each of these. Blood sugar normalization will tend to reverse most of these elevations over the long term. Fibrinogen can be elevated by kidney disease, even in the absence of elevated blood sugars. It will tend to normalize if kidney disease reverses. Lipoprotein(a) will also tend to normalize somewhat with blood sugar normalization, although your genetic makeup (and low estrogen levels in women) can play a greater role than blood sugar. Abnormally low thyroid function is a common cause of low HDL and elevated LDL, homocysteine, and lipoprotein(a). Although serum homocysteine is also a cardiac risk factor, it was recently discovered that the usual treatment for elevated values (vitamin B-12 and folic acid supplements) actually increased mortality.

    Serum transferrin saturation, ferritin, and Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC)
    These are all measures of total body iron stores. Iron is vital, but it is also potentially dangerous. Levels that are too high can indicate a cardiac risk, can cause insulin resistance, and are a risk factor for liver cancer. Higher iron levels are more likely in men than in premenopausal women because of blood (iron) loss during menstruation. Iron levels that are too low (iron deficiency anemia, which is more common in premenopausal women) can cause an uncontrollable urge to snack, which in turn can lead to uncontrollable blood sugars. Both high and low iron stores can be easily determined and readily treated.

    Last edited by Cryptocode; 04-02-2013 at 08:32 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Norco, California
    For the first time, Potassium didn't seem to work right, neither did Melatonin. Aghhhhhh! I don't know what's going on. My body keeps changing so fast.

    I had to get up at 4am to expell that hard stool that didn't want to wait any longer. It was still hard but slippery on the outside. I'll take another P tonight. I took 2mg Melatonin last night and there was no effect at all. This huge change from being 'knocked out' 4 days ago wtih 3mg. I don't understand this at all. Not planning any more Melatonin. But relating this response to non-absorbtion of calcium is wrong. I sure absorbed it the first time.

    Today, Sunday, we're going to Rob & Tina's house for a pot-luck Easter dinner. Our contribution is 6 lbs of grass-fed beef (3 chuck, and 3 flap meat) and a fruit salad. I have no clue what flap meat is. Dick is pot-roasting both. The flap-meat is now very tender, the chuck is not.

    I had my hair done yesterday. Lorena didn't notice any 'lack of hair' and was positive that the loss I claimed would grow back. She was sad that two of her customers in the Army died last year in Afganistan, they were both cops in the Reserves. One died by a 'terrorist child wtih explosives'. She's now working 12 hours a day because her contractor husband is out of work. Another Aghhhhh!

    B - skipped
    L - 2 bacon, 2 eggs
    D - with 2 families, 16 people, had cut corn, green bean casserole, beef pot roast, fruit salad, roll & spread, baked beans, (skipped the mashed potato & gravy, ham, turkey), leafy salad. It was bland, very bland. I kept adding salt & pepper. Skipped desert. Didn't feel full. I'm trying to understand why it all tasted so bland.
    - - - - - - -
    1 packet DM, 1 Mg, 3 Omega-3, 2 Glucosamine, 1 Iron, 4 D3, 1 liquid anitoxident, 1 C, 1 potassium; 1 GABA before bed.

    Tina's two Welsch Terriers, Marley and Rudy, are now primal, on the advice of a wholistic veterinarian. The regular vet. had been giving Marley shots and prescriptions for several months that didn't work. Tina was desparate. I wonder now if there's a chance Tina consider it.

    About a month ago I'd bought a new (used) pair of black cords on ebay, size 10, and put them on for dinner. Everything else I own is size 12 or 14. They were too large. I need a size 8. A 2-size jump - without exercise. And the last 2 weeks I've gained 3 lbs.
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 03-31-2013 at 09:25 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Norco, California
    Last night I listened to an excellent talk on the Weston A. Price channel. On the change in ways of eating it made me hungry for all the dishes we don't eat anymore. Cookbooks have radically changed since the 1950's toward low-fat. So this morning I bought 2 cookbooks from pre-1900, "Ladies Home Journal Cookbook", 1891, and "Homemaking in Old Virginia", 1887. I didn't realize the time until the talk was over, it was 1am. So I can't tell if the GABA worked or not. I went right to sleep, but at 1am that's not significant.

    This morning my BM was about 20 small balls. Now what is that all about. I didn't take an extra Mg yesterday - maybe that. Or maybe the CW food - but that seems too fast a reaction.

    B - 2 bacon, 2 eggs, salt, pepper, tumeric, 4 cups coffee w cream.
    L - 1 c chopped kale sauteed in CO w anchovies, 1/2 can tuna w EVOO
    D - Easter Dinner at Tina's, 16 family members.
    1 packet DM, 1 Mg, 3 Omega-3, 2 Glucosamine, 1 Iron (I'm anemic), 4 D3, 1 liquid anitoxident, 1 C, approx. 1 Mg., 1 GABA, MOM

    When we came home from dinner both of us felt tired and listless. We went to bed early.
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 04-02-2013 at 08:42 PM.

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