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Thread: Bread and The Bible page 19

  1. #181
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    :-)


  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0Angel0 View Post
    This! Nature is awe inspiring all on it's own. I don't need to be religious to be amazed by a thunderstorm or rendered speechless by a sunset. Studying how it all works just makes it take on a whole new level of awesome. The natural doesn't need a supernatural explanation to be any more splendid than it already is.
    In fact, a supernatural explanation pales in comparison to the wonder of the real thing. This was the point of Richard Dawkins' book Unweaving The Rainbow. I highly recommend it.

    Derpy- You sound depressed dude. But you're an atheist whether you hate the connotation of it or not. And your sympathies towards certain absurdities are misguided.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Slate View Post
    RichMahogany attempted to answer the original question with his best try......but you have failed....try again
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Slate View Post
    RichMahogany attempted to answer the original question with his best try......but you have failed....try again
    Oh look, the talking parrot is back. Squuuuuaaaaaaak! Try again!

  4. #184
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    I think that it's simply part of human nature. My God is better than yours. My belief or lack there of is better than yours. My diet.........and many other aspects of life.
    I think this world would have been a better place if we were more accepting of others and their choices.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    You can claim not to be a zealot, but when talking about religion you intentionally downplay it by calling it a fairy tale, or some condescending effect thereof. I'm not religious, or a believer, but I don't understand why you can't have respect for someone else as a human being not to think of them as a lesser person. It's pretty disrespectful to see the way atheists address everyone religious as if believing in nothing automatically makes them a better person.
    Hey Derp, my apologies, it just occurred to me that I called you a "her" in a previous comment. I think I just assumed that was you in your avatar. Sorry about that!

    Regarding the bold bit -- I agree with the spirit of what you say, though I'll point out that everyone considers their own beliefs to be "right", otherwise they wouldn't believe them. Think about it... if you thought someone else's belief about something was better than yours, then you'd believe that instead. However, it's how we act in regard to these differing beliefs that you're addressing, and that's where I really agree with you: people should recognize that they may be wrong, and that we're all on our own paths. No one is superior to anyone else because of the conclusions they've come to about the universe.

    So cheers to you, and to this fun discussion, but please stop painting this horrible picture of atheists as total assholes. I can't speak for all atheists, but we're not all what you seem to think we are!

    This is what I really wanted to address though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    Reality is depressing, what's wrong with wanting to believe in a little magic? I'm sure all of you have experienced some from of phenomena that you couldn't explain. Sure, it's likely you can explain away everything via some chemical reaction, but it's comforting to have an imagination and let your mind wander a bit to traverse unknown terrain that you can't explain away with science.

    Have you ever fallen madly in love with one person out of billions and thought you saw the face of God in them? That first glance when you lock eyes with them, it's kind of magical. Dunno just rambling now.
    I'm going to agree and disagree with you. I'm depressed too. I've dealt with terrible depression that's had me close to suicide on a number of occasions for almost 20 years. I've only barely hung on at times. So I agree that reality can be depressing, but that does not necessarily mean that reality is depressing. It's all in how you perceive it.

    Reality is also marvelous, and fascinating, and beautiful beyond measure. Music and art, love and friendships, or the big stuff like the unbelievable complexity of life, the strangeness of the quantum world, the unfathomable vastness of the universe, the mysteries of consciousness, and so on.

    Don't make the mistake of thinking that awe and appreciation for the wonders of reality go away just because a person doesn't think a god made it. The universe is a pretty amazing show whether it has a director or not.


  6. #186
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    Lumifer -- that cartoon was awesome.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    I'm simply defending other people for their right to choose.
    I don't think any reasonable person here would debate that. I consider religion rather silly, but I absolutely support people's personal freedom to choose to worship as they please, so long as it doesn't infringe on others. I consider myself an atheist, on Dawkins' spectrum I would be a de facto atheist, meaning I don't claim to know for certain, but I consider the possibility of a higher being to be so improbable that I live my life under the assumption that there is no god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Oh look, the talking parrot is back. Squuuuuaaaaaaak! Try again!
    Seriously, his troll job was off to a good start with the original post, but I'm now quite sure OP has an IQ in the double digits

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    You can claim not to be a zealot, but when talking about religion you intentionally downplay it by calling it a fairy tale, or some condescending effect thereof. I'm not religious, or a believer, but I don't understand why you can't have respect for someone else as a human being not to think of them as a lesser person. It's pretty disrespectful to see the way atheists address everyone religious as if believing in nothing automatically makes them a better person lel.
    <3
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  9. #189
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    I don't want to pick on anyone's posts specifically, but what really irritates me about atheism is that:

    1) Religious people are regarded as naive or weak.
    1) The "God" they don't believe in is invariably the same "God" that religious people do believe in. This is going out on a whim, but could you entertain the idea that something exists beyond this concrete boundaries of religion?

    I sympathise with religious people, and with atheists. We're all looking for answers. I became atheist at the age of 13, and remained atheist for 10 years because it answered all my questions. Then, when the questions started again, I had to investigate, and adjust my beliefs. The only thing I have found satisfactory in explaining life is Quantum Physics, and an understanding that the Bible is a jargonic text, never meant to be interpreted literally. If you read the bible with the meaning of the words in mind it actually makes sense. Examples: Adam = man, Eve = Life (Man develops self awareness because of the knowledge that Life brought him to). Water = consciousness. (Christ walking on water represents man learning to master consciousness).

    The historical "evidence" that Jesus existed is sketchy to say the least, but that doesn't mean that these texts are fairy tales with some heavy handed morals thrown in. I believe there was a time when people did not live to work, or have lists of things they needed to tick to make them happy. At some stage, people recognised that mystery was in abundance, and they devoted lifetimes to understanding these mysteries.

    Unfortunately religion has subverted these texts and presented them as literal presentations of truth, rather than a series of formula.

    It irks me that Atheists keep saying they don't believe in God, because it's religion that they don't believe in (usually just one religion. Most atheists I know haven't studied theology extensively). The interpretation of "God" as a "creator" is so narrow.

    I like to read books that are totally oppositional to what I believe because it challenges me and keeps my mind open. "The God Delusion" is the most ignorant and pompous piece of writing I've had the misfortune to waste my time on.

    I usually keep quiet during these discussions because they really make my blood boil. Why can't we look for the similarities between what we believe instead of constantly picking out the differences? We all say we want a peaceful world, but no one's prepared to start with themselves. [/rant]
    Last edited by YogaBare; 04-02-2013 at 07:03 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    I don't want to pick on anyone's posts specifically, but what really irritates me about atheism is that:

    1) Religious people are regarded as naive or weak.
    1) The "God" they don't believe in is invariably the same "God" that religious people do believe in. This is going out on a whim, but could you entertain the idea that something exists beyond this concrete boundaries of religion?

    I sympathise with religious people, and with atheists. We're all looking for answers. I became atheist at the age of 13, and remained atheist for 10 years because it answered all my questions. Then, when the questions started again, I had to investigate, and adjust my beliefs. The only thing I have found satisfactory in explaining life is Quantum Physics, and an understanding that the Bible is a jargonic text, never meant to be interpreted literally. If you read the bible with the meaning of the words in mind it actually makes sense. Examples: Adam = man, Eve = Life (Man develops self awareness because of the knowledge that Life brought him to). Water = consciousness. (Christ walking on water represents man learning to master consciousness).

    The historical "evidence" that Jesus existed is sketchy to say the least, but that doesn't mean that these texts are fairy tales with some heavy handed morals thrown in. I believe there was a time when people did not live to work, or have lists of things they needed to tick to make them happy. At some stage, people recognised that mystery was in abundance, and they devoted lifetimes to understanding these mysteries.

    Unfortunately religion has subverted these texts and presented them as literal presentations of truth, rather than a series of formula.

    It irks me that Atheists keep saying they don't believe in God, because it's religion that they don't believe in (usually just one religion. Most atheists I know haven't studied theology extensively). The interpretation of "God" as a "creator" is so narrow.

    I like to read books that are totally oppositional to what I believe because it challenges me and keeps my mind open. "The God Delusion" is the most ignorant and pompous piece of writing I've had the misfortune to waste my time on.

    I usually keep quiet during these discussions because they really make my blood boil. Why can't we look for the similarities between what we believe instead of constantly picking out the differences? We all say we want a peaceful world, but no one's prepared to start with themselves. [/rant]
    Okay, preface: I like The God Delusion. And I'm the quintessential "atheist zealot" giving all the closet atheists (Like Derp, despite his repeated denials) a bad name. I have a T-Rex eating a Jesus fish emblem, and a bumper sticker that says "Born Right the First Time."

    But my real objection, as I keep saying, is when people try to justify decision- and/or policy-making based on known fallacies (like suggesting that my ancestrally informed diet is misguided because Jesus talked about bread e.g. the original post in this very thread. Or the Crusades. Or limiting women's right to choose. Or flying airplanes into buildings. Or driving an entire people out of a "holy land").

    You want to talk about which gods I object to, specifically? It's really an easy distinction for me. I object to Gods that exist outside the Universe. Gods you have to apply to for salvation. I think spirituality is an inherent human trait, and as much as I don't believe in a sentient creator, I feel like the earth is our home (rather than heaven/nirvana/valhalla/whatever), and I'm saddened when people feel so out of place here that they need to turn to Sky Gods in cloud castles outside the universe and dream of finally being "home" after they're dead.

    I'm home now, and I'll be home when I'm eaten by lions and become part of the lion, and when the worms eat the lion and I become a worm, and when a bird eats the worm, etc... But there's no conflict between science and my spiritual beliefs. They're 2 ways of looking at the same observations, not 1 way of looking at it and 1 way of looking away from it (i.e. Stephen J. Gould's "Separate Magisteria" hogwash).

    And yes, I do plan to be eaten by lions. (worms more likely). But I don't want to be embalmed/preserved/sealed in an air-tight box. I want to return to the community of life that which I've borrowed from it all these years, so that I may continue taking part in the glorious spectacle that is life.

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