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Thread: Difference between "Primal" and "Weston A Price Foundation"?? page

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    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Difference between "Primal" and "Weston A Price Foundation"??

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    It's been a little while since I've read intensively on what Mark Sisson is saying, and I never fully got into WAPF. Can anybody with more expertise break down the difference?

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    WAP encourages the consumption of properly soaked/fermented grains (including wheat) and beans. It also encourages lots of raw, pastured dairy products. Other than that they have a similar message - lots of whole, unprocessed foods, lots of fats, avoid bad oils, grass fed/pastured when possible, high nutrient density, etc.

    Oh - and WAP discourages consumption of pork.
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by jammies View Post
    WAP encourages the consumption of properly soaked/fermented grains (including wheat) and beans. It also encourages lots of raw, pastured dairy products. Other than that they have a similar message - lots of whole, unprocessed foods, lots of fats, avoid bad oils, grass fed/pastured when possible, high nutrient density, etc.

    Oh - and WAP discourages consumption of pork.
    Doesn't Mark think dairy is good if you can digest it well? People from southern Africa to Northern Finland use dairy as a staple, so while not ALL people can consume it, there are certainly a good number who can. It's silly to say dairy is bad because half the people can't digest it well while the other half thrive off its nutrients.

    Doesn't Mark admit that soaked/fermented grains and legumes are basically acceptable, but not worth the effort or cost, and there are better options (like sweet potato)? Well, maybe you have a lot of time to work on your food, and maybe sweet potatoes aren't available to you since they're a hot climate food, and they don't store as well as plant seeds (nuts, seeds, grains, legumes).

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Doesn't Mark think dairy is good if you can digest it well? People from southern Africa to Northern Finland use dairy as a staple, so while not ALL people can consume it, there are certainly a good number who can. It's silly to say dairy is bad because half the people can't digest it well while the other half thrive off its nutrients.

    Doesn't Mark admit that soaked/fermented grains and legumes are basically acceptable, but not worth the effort or cost, and there are better options (like sweet potato)? Well, maybe you have a lot of time to work on your food, and maybe sweet potatoes aren't available to you since they're a hot climate food, and they don't store as well as plant seeds (nuts, seeds, grains, legumes).
    My interpretation of PB per Mark is that dairy fine if you tolerate it and soaked grain/legumes to be better than junk food, but nutritionally inferior and a hindrance to weight loss compared to more paleo foods.

    Personally, if I had a family to feed or became unable to continue to afford eating this way I would probably add in some soaked beans, corn, and rice in to my primal menu. I think it would be fine and still miles above the standard american diet. I would not add in regular wheat though if I could avoid it.
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by jammies View Post
    My interpretation of PB per Mark is that dairy fine if you tolerate it and soaked grain/legumes to be better than junk food, but nutritionally inferior and a hindrance to weight loss compared to more paleo foods.

    Personally, if I had a family to feed or became unable to continue to afford eating this way I would probably add in some soaked beans, corn, and rice in to my primal menu. I think it would be fine and still miles above the standard american diet. I would not add in regular wheat though if I could avoid it.
    I'm really curious now about soaked wheat. I'd like to try some and see if it's fine with me; regular wheat causes me problems, and I don't say that about many foods. It just seems like WAPF and Primal are arguing about such mundane details that it's absolutely silly. They come from different eras, and both use plenty of good research to come to their conclusions. WAPF was here first though!

    I think this is useful in discussing health with less-informed individuals. WAPF and Primal have significantly different connotations to people.

    And if I find soaked wheat or other kinds of grains/legumes to agree with me.... I think I will convert from Primal to WAPF to being my primary authority on nutrition.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 03-27-2013 at 12:23 AM.

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    If you are sensitive to gluten, remember gluten is not water-soluble. You can't soak it away. I doubt you could get it down to a safe consumption level (20ppm) through any normal fermentation process.

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    I do fine with raw dairy (WAPF), fermented, sprouted grains (sour dough), but even when we followed WAPF, I just couldn't get into the prep cycles (a week to make bread? first you sprout, then you grind, then you ferment into a sourdough for 3 days, and then you bake). We would occasionally buy some artisanal WAP-style bread, but otherwise? Just skipped it.

    Otherwise, it's basically the same whole-foods message, and we largely ate the same as we do now, since we didn't make our own breads and stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
    I do fine with raw dairy (WAPF), fermented, sprouted grains (sour dough), but even when we followed WAPF, I just couldn't get into the prep cycles (a week to make bread? first you sprout, then you grind, then you ferment into a sourdough for 3 days, and then you bake). We would occasionally buy some artisanal WAP-style bread, but otherwise? Just skipped it.

    Otherwise, it's basically the same whole-foods message, and we largely ate the same as we do now, since we didn't make our own breads and stuff.
    Hi Zoebird, I guess it's like wine, you can't just get it instantly... I suppose if you are into the sourdough bread thing you make it on a regular cycle, starting one batch even before eating the previous one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    It just seems like WAPF and Primal are arguing about such mundane details that it's absolutely silly. They come from different eras, and both use plenty of good research to come to their conclusions. WAPF was here first though
    You hear Sally Fallon scoffing at Paleo/Primal but you don't really hear Mark (or Robb or Chris) saying much of anything. Plus, I know several people that were eating a WAPF diet and had significant health gains once going off grains completely. Nutritionally and health-wise, I think Primal > WAPF > most other diets > SAD

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    It's all the same stuff. The study of ancestral health and the wisdom of not deviating from what we are adapted to eat. There is minor discussion of what exactly we are adapted to eat, but basically we know.

    In Price's book he discusses some tribes (like some Swiss living in an isolated valley) who ate a piece of rye bread plus a BIG hunk of cheese the same size as the piece of bread. And these people had perfect teeth and strong bodies, unlike neighboring Swiss who had messed up teeth and disease from white flour and sugar. Also an African tribe who ate meat, cows blood, and milk...and had perfect health, unlike their white bread eating neighbors who were weak. These people were not Paleolithic era of course, they had entered the agriculture/dairy age to some degree, but were still doing okay. So that's where the differences come from perhaps, we have seen evidence of people doing okay on some cheese/dairy. WAP was there studying real tribes in the 1930s.

    Paleo just goes back even further, but of course nobody was there to study these tribes. So it is more about digging up bones. It just says let's eliminate dairy/grains all together to be safe since those were not around then. No idea what Primal is since I haven't read Mark's book!

    Anyhow I don't see the point of differentiating with "name brands". It's been around for millions of years, we are just picking it back up.

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