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Thread: Difference between "Primal" and "Weston A Price Foundation"?? page 2

  1. #11
    KimchiNinja's Avatar
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    Also, WAPF is big on BUTTER.

    And from looking at Mark's "Quick and Easy Meals" cookbook he is too...

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkr View Post
    You hear Sally Fallon scoffing at Paleo/Primal but you don't really hear Mark (or Robb or Chris) saying much of anything. Plus, I know several people that were eating a WAPF diet and had significant health gains once going off grains completely. Nutritionally and health-wise, I think Primal > WAPF > most other diets > SAD
    WAPF minus soaked grains and legumes equals Primal? This is very minor in my mind. I do think that forms of "bread" go way further back in history than agriculture. I know how to make a polenta type dish and a semi-bread type dish just out of acorns. Acorns were huge for certain Native Americans. I believe there could have easily been equivalents to the acorn in parts of the world with much more ancient histories. So we're arguing if it should be wheat, spelt, beans, peas, acorns, walnuts, chestnuts, pumpkin seeds, etc.

    Some of these grains/nuts/seeds are very easy to harvest in the wild compared to something as difficult as wheat. It seems natural to store them for the winter, and create various meals out of them. "Breads" and "polentas" are natural results of this.

    And Mark Sisson seems to agree with me on both of these points. I believe he's said that you *could* ferment your grains/legumes/nuts for better eating, but under the framework of our society's supermarket, you don't have to. He's also said that cheat days are fine.

    I don't call them "cheat days" because that implies I'm in a 'best nutriton ever' competition that leads to nothing but ridiculous nutritional perfectionism. Because of this, I happily avoid breads and the like because I WANT to avoid them, not so I can feel happy about myself knowing I didn't "cheat".
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 03-28-2013 at 12:30 AM.

  3. #13
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    I'm certainly not saying these breads and meals should be preferred to starchy tubers, melons, and squash. These "less than ideal" foods can still be thrived on if everything else is 'right'. I approach the idea of wellness slightly different than some here because I'm not just thinking in terms of the supermarket's incredible assortment of everything. I also want to know the practical side, the "if you have to" side, the survival and self-sufficient side for ALL different climates everywhere on Earth, not just sunny California.

    And plus, I don't have a faith or authority attitude about nutrition. If that were so, I'd be sticking to Primal 100% of the time. I sometimes save my willpower and time for other tasks in life than getting that last 10% of nutrition.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by fifer View Post
    Hi Zoebird, I guess it's like wine, you can't just get it instantly... I suppose if you are into the sourdough bread thing you make it on a regular cycle, starting one batch even before eating the previous one.
    Yes. Usually you have the ability to bake bread 3-5x a week so you just keep things rolling out to make that happen.

    I've noticed, too, that WAPF come in "kinds." I suppose it's like Primals. You have carnivore, VLC, LC, perfect health, etc. You have some that are more paleo and others that are hitting that 20% hard.

    Well, with WAPF, I noticed that there were several kinds:

    Bakers -- these folks were major into making their fermented breads, and boy did they. Not just sour dough, but fermented everything -- banana bread, zuccini bread, apple-walnut bread, blueberry muffins. These folks mostly eat baked goods and butter, and then usually have a meal in the evening of meat, veg, and baked goods with butter.

    Fermenters -- these folks love to ferment. They ferment salsas, kim chis, pickles, sauerkrauts, and make all natural sodas, kombacha, or similar beverages. Since most of these take a week, and then it takes a week to eat what you made, and they store well, you can just keep an endless cycle going. These folks are more likely to consume their veggies in the fermented form, fresh fruits, meats and raw dairy -- looking closest to the carnivore diet, really. They mostly eat meat, some dairy, and the veg amounts they eat are all fermented and in small quantities. They go paleo easy. In fact, they look paleo-carnivore.

    Paleo-WAPF -- these are folks like us who follow the WAPF but cbf to ferment-to-bake or ferment. As such, everything on the safe and approved lists are things that come unprocessed from local farms and/or farmers markets. Veggies, fruit, raw dairy, and pastured meats. But, there are no strictures on grains/etc -- so it is a pretty awesome treat when an artisanal baker who makes WAPF bread opens in your 'hood. So you might buy a loaf a week, and have a slice of bread or two a day with the old brekkie.

    WAPF-lite: these folks follow the basics WAPF stuff, BUT they go for the "second best" in the shopping guide. This usually means buying the best meats/veg they can afford, skipping the dairy because they can't get to it raw, and finding a way to create the tastiest WAPF junk foods. They tend to make a lot of their own WAPF-style fudge.

    WAPF-Fatties: I call them fatties because they mostly focus on eating fat, not because they are fat. Some of them eat about 3000 cals a day just from fat! It's amazing. When you go to the web site and you count up the calories for their "fertility diet" it's about 90% fat and 3000 calories per day. It's eggs, sweetbreads (glands) and liver (protein/vits/minerals), and then basically lard, marrow, raw butter, cod liver oil (lots and lots!), coconut oil. I know people who basically eat that each day. It's pretty much 90% fat, honestly. It's just not to my tastes.

    WAPF moderates: these folks find a nice balance of all things WAPF. They eat a good amount of fat, a good amount of meat, dairy, eggs, veggies, fruit -- and they ferment, soak, sprout, and have their baking cycles as well. But, they might bake once a week or less, and ferment a bit for now and ferment more when they need it, etc. So, it's not like thye take up a WAPF food prep hobby.

    We were more to the paleo side of things. So the transition here was easy. But friends of ours who are WAPF and bake their own bread (in fact, are major bakers), are like "how can you live without bread!?" and it's not that hard, really, because we hvae been "bread lite" for about 12 years now. I mean, fancy toast 1-3x a week is not exactly getting high on the bread hog, you know?

  5. #15
    otzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoebird View Post

    I've noticed, too, that WAPF come in "kinds." I suppose it's like Primals. You have carnivore, VLC, LC, perfect health, etc. You have some that are more paleo and others that are hitting that 20% hard.
    Wow! You put a lot of thought into that reply...loved it! Spot on. Have you read WAP's writings on the Maori? He really loved them and was amazed at their health, strength and intelligence 'pre-contact'. He wrote quite a bit on what they did right before we screwed them up.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    I'm certainly not saying these breads and meals should be preferred to starchy tubers, melons, and squash. These "less than ideal" foods can still be thrived on if everything else is 'right'. I approach the idea of wellness slightly different than some here because I'm not just thinking in terms of the supermarket's incredible assortment of everything. I also want to know the practical side, the "if you have to" side, the survival and self-sufficient side for ALL different climates everywhere on Earth, not just sunny California.

    And plus, I don't have a faith or authority attitude about nutrition. If that were so, I'd be sticking to Primal 100% of the time. I sometimes save my willpower and time for other tasks in life than getting that last 10% of nutrition.
    I like WAP style eating, but personally it did not help relieve inflammation or help with weight loss. It was not until I did the autoimmune paleo diet that my health improved by leaps and bounds. For healthy individuals it may be a great choice.
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

  7. #17
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Wow! You put a lot of thought into that reply...loved it! Spot on. Have you read WAP's writings on the Maori? He really loved them and was amazed at their health, strength and intelligence 'pre-contact'. He wrote quite a bit on what they did right before we screwed them up.
    I agree. It was interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jammies View Post
    I like WAP style eating, but personally it did not help relieve inflammation or help with weight loss. It was not until I did the autoimmune paleo diet that my health improved by leaps and bounds. For healthy individuals it may be a great choice.
    Fair enough.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Doesn't Mark admit that soaked/fermented grains and legumes are basically acceptable, but not worth the effort or cost, and there are better options (like sweet potato)?
    So far as I remember, yes, you are right. At least not worth the effort to him.
    Ancestral Health Info - My blog about Primal and the general ancestral health movement. Site just remodeled using HTML5/CSS3 instead of Wordpress.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
    WAPF-Fatties: I call them fatties because they mostly focus on eating fat, not because they are fat. Some of them eat about 3000 cals a day just from fat! It's amazing. When you go to the web site and you count up the calories for their "fertility diet" it's about 90% fat and 3000 calories per day. It's eggs, sweetbreads (glands) and liver (protein/vits/minerals), and then basically lard, marrow, raw butter, cod liver oil (lots and lots!), coconut oil. I know people who basically eat that each day. It's pretty much 90% fat, honestly.
    Hehehe.

    Impressive fat consumption.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
    WAPF-Fatties: I call them fatties because they mostly focus on eating fat, not because they are fat. Some of them eat about 3000 cals a day just from fat! It's amazing. When you go to the web site and you count up the calories for their "fertility diet" it's about 90% fat and 3000 calories per day. It's eggs, sweetbreads (glands) and liver (protein/vits/minerals), and then basically lard, marrow, raw butter, cod liver oil (lots and lots!), coconut oil. I know people who basically eat that each day. It's pretty much 90% fat, honestly.
    Any knowledge on what that does to your body? I shoot for a stick of butter in a day if I'm hungry, and I'll have some fat in my meat too. I can really feel the effects of that when I wake up the next day (positive effects). I can only imagine that x2.

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