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Thread: Why? Psychologically page 7

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    The reason I wrote that long post was not to answer your question. It was to make you ask more questions (Socratically)... I was just trying to help you get out of a funk that I believe you said you were in.
    Thank you. I appreciate it. "Because I needed to get out of a depressive funk, take responsibility, and get on with my life. Even if my country was against me, I could stand on my own, and find that there are really good people (on this forum) who will help and support me in doing it."
    I think I've gone past that point.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtphoenix View Post
    I was lead here on a quest for knowledge. I have stayed because I love reading about people on the same or similar path.

    To go a little deeper:
    There are things you just know, or feel, and all the nonsense about what to eat and such didn't feel right. I was never really overweight, though I had a higher body fat percentage than I wanted. I never really tried dieting, but I tried changing the way I ate listening to "the experts", and saw no changes except in the wrong direction. The experts were telling me to do things counter to what I felt was what I should be doing. I did some research on IF because I almost never eat breakfast and listening to my body, have always been a 2 meal a day kind of person. Now I just do my best to make sure it's the right food for my body in those meals.

    Probably not psychological enough based on your responses to earlier posters, but let's say it answered a question that I'd been seeking at the time. The answer: You know what's right, do it, and don't listen to the others.

    As a thinker myself, I always wonder what causes people to perform an action counter to programming, even knowing the dire consequences of the action.
    Yes, exactly. I know what I experience. I know, if I'm paying attention, what I feel in response to those experiences. I know that I can reflect and/or contemplate on both. I know these surely and I can use them to guide me. (The Greek workd "gnosis" means 'to know, directly' in exactly that sense. But when we are young we don't know. Our minds are not completely developed and as soon as our brains are beginning to click they are flooded with a new batch of hormones and we become badly confused and at sea. During our youth we learn from what we are told consciously and from what we observe (usually subconsciously). Later we realize there is often a clash between the two. Horrible. Slowly those who are willing to think independently from group-think begin 'to know' themselves or/and to think their own ideas.
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 03-28-2013 at 03:31 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by namelesswonder View Post
    Absolutely. I've been in therapy on and off for the past 10 years or so. This past year, since starting with primal and amino acid supplementation, I've made the most "break-throughs" in and outside of therapy. I'm able to sort out a lot of things for myself now.
    Wonderful, Great. Congratulations.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptocode View Post
    Today our money is the paper dollar which in itself has no value. Rather it started out representing a specific amount of gold and silver that did have value. Like a coat-check ticket represents a real coat. Alas, the gov't spent all the gold and silver they were holding to back those dollars, so they confiscated ours and then told us that the paper dollar was no longer backed by anything. (I'm really compressing time here.) They told us the dollar had the same value (and we believed them). Then they spent all the 'real wealth' of our nation. Since then they have borrowing against the future wealth of our future people. (Gold and silver still have real value, look on the commodities exchange.) LOL. It's a great game. Maybe not as much fun as Kings of old used to have when they 'shaved' coins of real money.

    Money is:
    1. a voluntarily accepted media of exchange - no longer of any value though, so the exchange for it is not voluntary but a matter of law. Dollars must be accepted for payment of any debt.
    2. a store of wealth - no longer
    3. fungable - yes
    4. fiduciary media - yes. Banks (and individuals) still charge interest for loans, but not much.
    5. Of steady value (not now) which enables accounting.

    The division of labor can be practiced (is enabled) when groups of people (or companies) voluntarily cooperate together to accomplish a goal.
    You're overreacting. Gold and silver don't have intrinsic value either. It's always been trust that makes the monetary sytem work, even with gold coins because you can't eat gold.

    All the paper money vs backed money difference is: the government now has the power to enlarge or shrink the money supply at will, which is impossible with metals like silver/gold because there is a set amount of it in the world.

    Now think about something for a second. If there's a set amount in the world, and the population grows, what happens? Everyone gets poorer! It's a hard limit that could have broken our economy a long time ago. There would have been not have been enough money flow for the USA to keep up with the rest of the world in technology. Now that we appear to no longer be growing, and many don't want the world to grow too much anymore; metal-backed money might be a solid way of enforcing sustainability.

    Another thought: There was a founding father that feared this singular power of money supply control could dominate a nation. Has our nation been totally controlled just by the Fed? Food for thought.

    I don't think a barter system or favor system would allow the complex division of labor that we have today. Things would be far less entangled. As a result, people would be more self-sufficient, but society as a whole may not achieve as much technologically(aka progress in knowledge).
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 03-28-2013 at 01:12 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptocode View Post
    Good Morning, Gladmorning,
    You gave me the "I had a heart attack, you dummy" answer. You got fat and wanted to loose weight. We're all here to either change our weight or get healthy or both. That's the direct, conscious answer. But what is the psychological or unconscious answer. Why did you gain weight in the first place? What problems did that solve? Did it have to do with your father? (I'll bet there were a lot of issues. We all have or had them.)

    We're programmed to believe our conscious mind is choosing it's responses. But it's usually our unconscious (parasympathetic) that chooses and acts and our conscious mind just justifies those actions. "I do not think it will get better before it gets worse", is very likely true. You've just past the crises point. It will help to bring into consciousness the causes and resultant changes that are in the process of happening.

    God, I hope this doesn't sound condenscending. Does it? I don't mean it to be.
    Sometimes things really are as straight forward as they seem. I think "fat people" are too often told there's something emotionally or psychologically wrong with them. I used to wonder that about myself too. How did I "let" myself get to over 100lbs overweight? Was I an emotional eater? Did I have something seriously wrong with me? A binge eating disorder?? Should I be on meds or something? This past year has taught me that none of that is true.

    It was really as simple as eating the right foods. Get rid of the crap and you get rid of the cravings. I still have stress, I still get emotional and uspet sometimes, but I don't overeat or binge because my body is satisfied with the real food it gets. Not to mention that crappy processed foods, sugar, and grain can cause the very moodiness that then causes you to eat too much in a big vicious cycle that is then blamed on some emotional defect the fat person surely must have.

    Being fat or unhealthy doesn't always have to have it's roots in a psychological disorder. Sometimes it's physical. Eat the right foods that nourish your body and everything else automatically falls into place. It really can be just that simple.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0Angel0 View Post
    Sometimes things really are as straight forward as they seem. I think "fat people" are too often told there's something emotionally or psychologically wrong with them. I used to wonder that about myself too. How did I "let" myself get to over 100lbs overweight? Was I an emotional eater? Did I have something seriously wrong with me? A binge eating disorder?? Should I be on meds or something? This past year has taught me that none of that is true.

    It was really as simple as eating the right foods. Get rid of the crap and you get rid of the cravings. I still have stress, I still get emotional and uspet sometimes, but I don't overeat or binge because my body is satisfied with the real food it gets. Not to mention that crappy processed foods, sugar, and grain can cause the very moodiness that then causes you to eat too much in a big vicious cycle that is then blamed on some emotional defect the fat person surely must have.

    Being fat or unhealthy doesn't always have to have it's roots in a psychological disorder. Sometimes it's physical. Eat the right foods that nourish your body and everything else automatically falls into place. It really can be just that simple.
    ^^^ This.

  7. #67
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    Wiltondeportes,

    Please see http://mises.org for further economic discussion.
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 03-28-2013 at 03:45 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by peril View Post
    I'm here because I'm looking to become healthy having had a heart attack four years ago. Physicians don't understand that desire
    Agreed. I think physicians no longer even want to understand their patients, and that includes G.P.s. They are trained to dispense drugs or refer their patients to specialists.

  9. #69
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    The Mind / Brain Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    The "mind" side is what traditional psychology has been about -- talk therapy, reflection, etc..
    Before traditional psychology the mind has always been the arena of religions. Traditional psychology is very recent; Freud began it in the late 1800's. Through a tangled number of translations or mistaken translations the words soul and mind had become synonomous hundreds of years B.C.. From the earliest Christianity the mind and soul were synonomous and were later believed to be the "Holy Ghost", the 'representation' of "God" in a person, their conscience. And this debate/discussion has been going on since science discovered the brain and some of its functions.

    Today, the example that comes to mind is the treatment of Alchoholism. It is treated in clinics medically with lots of a large variety of drugs. Treatments typically lasts 4-6 weeks. The Shick Center test for a successful cure is that the patient is sober 6 months after treatment. In this path the brain is chemically altered.

    The mind path is represented by AA. No drugs, not even asprin, are used. Treatment is via the mind and lasts 3-5 years. A successful cure is determined when the individual dies (hopefully of old age) sober. Thus it is very difficult to compare success. But in a number of such well-done studies AA is by far the more successful. No contest.

    However the point I wish to make is that both treatments can work. Either the brain (as altered) can influence the mind, or the mind (as altered) can alter the chemistry of the brain.

    I agree wholheartedly with Rojo. Our culture today has swung entirely to the "bag of chemicals" brain side and is badly out of balance. We also have dumped philosophy, psychology, religion, etc. as if they were of no value at all. This in spite of the obvious facts that wars over exactly these fields are costing us a lot of money and trouble.
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 03-28-2013 at 04:50 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0Angel0 View Post
    Sometimes things really are as straight forward as they seem. I think "fat people" are too often told there's something emotionally or psychologically wrong with them. I used to wonder that about myself too. How did I "let" myself get to over 100lbs overweight? Was I an emotional eater? Did I have something seriously wrong with me? A binge eating disorder?? Should I be on meds or something? This past year has taught me that none of that is true.
    . . . .

    Being fat or unhealthy doesn't always have to have it's roots in a psychological disorder. Sometimes it's physical. Eat the right foods that nourish your body and everything else automatically falls into place. It really can be just that simple.
    I never said that fat people have " something emotionally or psychologically wrong with them". I said that it's interesting, to me, to view my (our) lives through a psychological window or view. It's also interesting to Michael Chrichton and many, many others. This does NOT mean there's anything wrong with them. I do agree though that, perhaps because our culture has become so unbalanced, it is currently the fad to "assign psychological disorders", IMO when big-pharma thinks they have something to treat this new disorder with. IMO humans are quite 'gifted' enough to deal with their own lives, when they decide to take responsibility for themselves.

    The fact that I'm here should be proof of that, if you've read the whole thread. (I took my digestive tract back from my doctors. It's mine now (my responsibility also)).
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 03-28-2013 at 04:53 PM.

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