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Thread: Alternate Day Fasting- Debate and Science page 5

  1. #41
    Dragonfly's Avatar
    Dragonfly is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucy1984 View Post
    Well said emmie, I am in a similar position - gained weight despite a 'calorie deficit', due to thyroid condition.

    I put 'calorie deficit' in brackets, because obviously eating 1200 calories a day, while according to all calorie counters and estimators etc was a deficit, in actual fact it can't have been a deficit because I was gaining.

    I think it comes down to semantics - how do we know that a certain number of calories is a deficit? We don't, not if the old calories in vs calories out is flawed, which I think has thoroughly been proven or argued on other threads. Therefore, we only know that we are in a calorie deficit when we lose weight.

    If we begin by believing that ekatherine is telling the truth, and did in fact gain weight on 800cal per day - and what possible reason would ekatherine have to lie? What gain? Other than incorrect feedback about their diet? And also assume that ekatherine is not a complete incompetent and unable to weigh, measure and add up this 800cal per day. Then the only answer is that for ekatherine, 800cal per day was not a deficit. Probably, as emmie says, due to metabolic or hormonal issues, eg thyroid.

    I have been there myself, and have had people tell me that I was incompetent, lying, or just too plain stupid to add up and measure my calories.
    +1 Ah...so nice to see someone else who really gets what a calorie deficit is. Thank you.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucy1984 View Post
    Well said emmie, I am in a similar position - gained weight despite a 'calorie deficit', due to thyroid condition.

    I put 'calorie deficit' in brackets, because obviously eating 1200 calories a day, while according to all calorie counters and estimators etc was a deficit, in actual fact it can't have been a deficit because I was gaining.

    I think it comes down to semantics - how do we know that a certain number of calories is a deficit? We don't, not if the old calories in vs calories out is flawed, which I think has thoroughly been proven or argued on other threads. Therefore, we only know that we are in a calorie deficit when we lose weight.

    If we begin by believing that ekatherine is telling the truth, and did in fact gain weight on 800cal per day - and what possible reason would ekatherine have to lie? What gain? Other than incorrect feedback about their diet? And also assume that ekatherine is not a complete incompetent and unable to weigh, measure and add up this 800cal per day. Then the only answer is that for ekatherine, 800cal per day was not a deficit. Probably, as emmie says, due to metabolic or hormonal issues, eg thyroid.

    I have been there myself, and have had people tell me that I was incompetent, lying, or just too plain stupid to add up and measure my calories.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    +1 Ah...so nice to see someone else who really gets what a calorie deficit is. Thank you.
    I'm another one who's been there, done that, Gorbag. When your thyroid has tanked and your CO side of the equation is wayyyy below what it should be, thanks to your ridiculously low metabolism, of course there are going to be some serious issues. I'd read many of emmie's posts here for quite some time and had no idea I'd be in the same baffling boat at one point. Unfortunately, NOTHING will "fix" such a situation other than going straight to the source of the problem and addressing the thyroid deficiencies. No amount of supplements, dietary changes, fitness regimens, or combinations of the three will compensate for the lack of thyroid hormone. I tried them all (repeatedly) and kick myself for wasting so much time and energy trying to fix it myself before addressing what I'd hoped wasn't the issue. (Thank God for those of you who've posted about your situation - reading them helped snap me out of my insanity/denial and get my butt to the ENDO!)
    Last edited by GoJenGo; 04-08-2013 at 08:38 AM.
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  3. #43
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    Okay, back on topic.

    I'm reading through the other thread, the support thread, primarily to gather more info for my dad, who is a master faster but hasn't been able to harness that facility to lose weight consistently. He is motivated, can fast for two to four days without discomfort or challenges, but so far isn't really getting that much weight off that stays off.

    My main question is the discussion about bonking and livers and glycogen. When we are eating primal/paleo, don't most people shift to burning fat? Or at least to being more efficient switchers back and forth between sugar/fat burning as needed? I've taken this benefit of transitioning fully into primal as one of the reasons Mark and others don't promote IF but only say it can be a tool for some if it works for you, etc.

    My dad, who eats crackers and bread most days, doesn't seem to crash on multi-day fasts. Not at all. He doesn't even get hungry -- only misses the habits of meals and taste sensations, really. That lack of a crash surprised me at first but I guess his metabolism is able to switch to fat-burning despite normally living on much higher carbs than most of us.

    Anyway, I find myself quizzical at the crash/bonk/glycogen questions in the support thread. Am I missing something obvious, or are most people doing alternate days not fully transitioned into primal? Maybe I just have my dad's metabolism, because I don't crash on fasts either.

    Anyway, just curious about this aspect for any who may have comments. Thanks!
    "If man made it, don't eat it." ..Jack LaLanne
    "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are.
    If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong." ..Richard Feynman

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