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Thread: Debunking the paleo diet page 2

  1. #11
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Looking to the past for dietary advices may lead to some absurdities! Suppose that I lived some 700.000 years ago as a caveman and using the evolutionary argument by looking backwards, then at that time the paleolittic diet would have been a newcomer and some other pre-paleolittic diets must have been better for at that stage because humans must have been more evolutionary adapted to what went before they started to eat the paelolittic way...
    It's already out there The Epi-Paleo Diet

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Looking to the past for dietary advices may lead to some absurdities! Suppose that I lived some 700.000 years ago as a caveman and using the evolutionary argument by looking backwards, then at that time the paleolittic diet would have been a newcomer and some other pre-paleolittic diets must have been better for at that stage because humans must have been more evolutionary adapted to what went before they started to eat the paelolittic way...
    700,000 years ago, they would have looked at their predecessors and said "Look at those stupid little guys with the small brains. Don't think I will eat what they are eating. Gonna have me some bison instead."

  3. #13
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    I actually liked a lot of what she had to say about our modern fruits and veggies being modern creations that do not resemble the much less palatable and much less nutritious wild varieties. This, IMO, lends credence to the more meat based diet that I eat. Grok would never have bothered with wild broccoli or wild lettuce. They would have had so little nutrition and so much in the way of toxins and anti-nutrients, they would not have been worth the effort to collect them except under famine conditions.

    Otherwise, yeah, lots of stawmen going on. Like saying the "caveman" diet is all about muscle meat only. Um, care to look in my fridge and see the marrow bones and liver pate' and lamb heart?

    And sure, there would have been some regional variability between Groks in various places. Who is saying otherwise?

    Just because there is some barley in the dental plaque of a neanderthal fossil tooth doesn't mean this was a major source of calories. Before being cultivated, it couldn't have been. It would have been a random handful of wild rice thrown in the stewpot or whatever. Paleo has never said that these things were NEVER consumed, just that they weren't the base of the diet.

    Then she goes on to say that we need to eat whole foods, not sodas. Um, is anybody other than Derp arguing with that?

  4. #14
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    I enjoyed that talk very much. Thanks for sharing.

    The only thing I really took issue with was her statement that humans have no specific adaptations for eating meat. Technically true, but statements like that give people the wrong impression, and as lots of vegans learn the hard way, life as a human being sucks ass without dietary cholesterol, fat soluble vitamins and B12. And iron and zinc.
    Last edited by Timthetaco; 03-25-2013 at 05:07 PM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I actually liked a lot of what she had to say about our modern fruits and veggies being modern creations that do not resemble the much less palatable and much less nutritious wild varieties. This, IMO, lends credence to the more meat based diet that I eat. Grok would never have bothered with wild broccoli or wild lettuce. They would have had so little nutrition and so much in the way of toxins and anti-nutrients, they would not have been worth the effort to collect them except under famine conditions.

    Otherwise, yeah, lots of stawmen going on. Like saying the "caveman" diet is all about muscle meat only. Um, care to look in my fridge and see the marrow bones and liver pate' and lamb heart?

    And sure, there would have been some regional variability between Groks in various places. Who is saying otherwise?

    Just because there is some barley in the dental plaque of a neanderthal fossil tooth doesn't mean this was a major source of calories. Before being cultivated, it couldn't have been. It would have been a random handful of wild rice thrown in the stewpot or whatever. Paleo has never said that these things were NEVER consumed, just that they weren't the base of the diet.

    Then she goes on to say that we need to eat whole foods, not sodas. Um, is anybody other than Derp arguing with that?
    Wasn't this myth throughly debunked already, re: the fruit? Also, we're omnivores, not carnivores, we're evolved to eat a wide variety of food. Eating nothing but meat is hardly ideal, as you have to go out of your way to obtain key nutrients(getting just enough vitamin c to avoid scurvy come on) The fattened up, domesticated meat sacks don't really resemble animals that were hunted in the wild either btw.

    And, yeah, soda tastes good. Nothing like a nice cold mexican coke on a hot socal day. I'm evolving, not devolving, I'm not deathly afraid of all neolithic substances, I'd rather put my paranoia to good use.
    nihil

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    Wasn't this myth throughly debunked already, re: the fruit? Also, we're omnivores, not carnivores, we're evolved to eat a wide variety of food. Eating nothing but meat is hardly ideal, as you have to go out of your way to obtain key nutrients(getting just enough vitamin c to avoid scurvy come on) The fattened up, domesticated meat sacks don't really resemble animals that were hunted in the wild either btw.

    And, yeah, soda tastes good. Nothing like a nice cold mexican coke on a hot socal day. I'm evolving, not devolving, I'm not deathly afraid of all neolithic substances, I'd rather put my paranoia to good use.
    Actually that was the presenter debunking our "paleo foods" as not being nearly the same types of fruits and veggies that paleo people ate. Denise did a debunk of the fruit thing by showing there are indeed some very nice sized fruits in Africa and other areas that indigenous people eat. So its like a paleo debunk of debunking paleo that was debunked by an x-vegan. Do try to keep up.

    Also the "lean wild meat" thing has been debunked by showing how traditional societies actually do utilize every bit of fat on those lean carcasses AND they do preferentially hunt the fattier individuals of the herd. So again the paleo debunk has a counter debunk, but that only is likely to hold true if your eating nose to tail like paleobird, and many of the rest of us do.

    As to your soda, cigs, and sugar.... hell, you don't gotta rationalize to us... you like your soda and cigs then have at em. I'm not sure those are the neolithic items I would go with though.

  7. #17
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    Well, I didn't watch the vid yet bro, just got off work and I got a hockey game to watch.

    So, which substances would you choose?
    nihil

  8. #18
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    i think people just latch onto an idea about what they think paleo is and then go from there. Several straw man arguments, several things we've already heard and considered, and from there, basically nothing worth listening to except that we already do what she recommends anyway.

    From there, it's basically about how individual people who identify as paleo are. Some people *are* grok re-enactors. Others are just looking for a healthy, sustainable way to eat that they enjoy, and a community with whom they can talk about it in general.

    And, this is a relatively open paleo community -- since we have the "include dairy if you want" and the "20%" element. So, that's quite nice -- makes it easier to chat about the non-paleo things that we may be doing, how they affect us n=1 style, and so on. Beneficial.

  9. #19
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    Actually that video is one of the best endorsements
    for the Paleo Diet I've seen besides Loren Cordain's presentation. My diet is more like the one Cordain outlines in his book, The Paleo Diet, but like he suggested I go by the 80/20 rule and have dairy once in awhile. Cordain pretty much says the same thing this woman has said in her lecture. The biggest problem I see with this lecture as well as the new book that came out recently entitled "Paleo Fantasy" by evolutionary biologist Marlene Zuk, is not that their science is wrong, but that they really don't understand the current popular paleo diet.
    Last edited by grokgramma; 03-25-2013 at 06:41 PM.

  10. #20
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    Thank you, that was a good talk. I think she was vey fair, especially since it's obvious that she has a built in ideology. But Paleo/Primal is not 'primarily meat based', it is primarily fat based meaning that's what where most of our calories come from. The examples she gave of inhabitants of Mexico (7000bc - Olmec?) and the Mayan were of argicultural civilizations. Yes, we have a longer digestive tract than carnivors but shorter than herbavores, that's because we're omnivors, along with the intermediate dental type. We don't have 2 sets of teeth like grazers or canine incisors like carnivors.

    She did point out the regional adaptations. In Southern africa they ate a lot more fruit and veggies, in the far North they ate almost entirely meat. But then she blamed paleo for being based on meat and veggies. Does this make sense?

    The nitrogen information was interesting.

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