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Thread: Going against the grain - The unorthodox way to beat the binge page 2

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpycakes View Post
    What is the longest period of time that you've let yourself just eat as much as you want?
    This is my question as well. Most will binge for a day or two then derpive themselves in a vicious cycle. Most who force feed themselves for weeks will find that they simply lose the desire to eat junk. Most just fear the scale so much that they will never give it an honest try.

    I do think there are a very few peoplt that really dont have an off switch but usually these people are hundreds of pounds overweight.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    This is my question as well. Most will binge for a day or two then derpive themselves in a vicious cycle. Most who force feed themselves for weeks will find that they simply lose the desire to eat junk. Most just fear the scale so much that they will never give it an honest try.

    I do think there are a very few peoplt that really dont have an off switch but usually these people are hundreds of pounds overweight.
    I probably did not give it a fair chance, but I will say that if I continued to eat junk, I would only stay addicted to junk. Just as the people on the SAD are. I honestly think that my problem was that I was depriving myself of fats. I had feelings of resentment because when I was eating healthy, I couldn't eat a nice marbled steak or chicken with the skin on it. Now that I am eating some high fat foods, I have had no desire to eat junk. I have been eating a hearty breakfast of steak or bacon and eggs and maybe a small piece of fruit. Lunch and dinner has been meat and salads. It seems pretty nutritious and has been filling. Today, I did not even want to eat between meals which is pretty remarkable for me. Mark says that it takes 21 days for your body to really switch over to a fat burning metabolism, so I am hoping to see a more normal appetite.

    You guys are very right about the restriction. I honestly do not feel restricted about leaving junk behind because I really don't want it in my life anymore. As far as carbs go, I love fruit and plan on having some occasionally, but so far I have been happy with what I have been eating.

    I cannot deny that there is a psychological component behind it, but there are so many things that lead me to believe that the biological aspect is a bigger problem. I do fear being hungry, probably because of dieting for so long. But when I eat a satisfying meal, I am really not concerned about when my next meal will be. It is quite remarkable.

  3. #13
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    I'm really happy that this is working for you so far Callison. EDs are complex and are caused by a myriad of reasons, so the answer for one person may not be the answer for another. There's more than one way to skin a cat

    I would just suggest that if you love fruit and start to miss it then please do eat some, otherwise fruit will become your "fat" (ie. the thing you were depriving yourself from).

    Look forward to seeing how this progresses for you!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  4. #14
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    Thanks YogaBare. I have put a lot of thought into that today of how many things cause ED's. Right now, I am eating a lot of food and gaining some weight, but still no sugar. I am not eating between meals and haven't binged as of yet. No carb cravings. I had a slight craving this afternoon, and I was tempted to get an Atkins low carb pseudofood bar. I decided to pass on that and just ate some extra tuna salad instead. The weight gain is bothering me, and I am eating large quantities of meats/veggies so I know I am earning the extra pounds. I am just hoping that I will become insulin/leptin sensitive and this mythical appetite reduction will rear its head.

    I can actually say that I remember a time when everything seemed to work right in my body and when I would gain some weight, my appetite would go away and I would lose it automatically - just like we are supposed to. In regards to the "off" switch, I am realizing now that I do have one, but it is taking a lot of food before I get the signal that I am full. Also, I have such a fear of being hungry that I think I eat more at meals than I need. It is like I am buying an insurance policy against binging with some extra food at meals. It is at least eliminating the habit of binging. I am practicing throwing part of the food on my plate away, so that I don't feel obligated to eat everything that is there. I just put a crap load of food on there so that although I eat a lot, I will still have some to toss. I am hoping to gradually decrease my portion sizes, but I am going to have to be very careful with this. It has been nice not thinking of food between meals. It is not just extra willpower, the thought of eating is appalling. I haven't experienced this in years. Although I did have some cravings this evening, they were before dinner and it was not difficult to pass on them. I think a little of this is carb flu.

    YogaBare - I did have a few strawberries with breakfast this morning for my fruit fix. I think I had like 3-4 and was fine with that. I am being cautious not to restrict, and really have not in any form or fashion except for limiting fruit. And pardon my ignorance, but I don't know how to look up your journal. I did a search and it did not return anything in the "journals" section. I would love to read it if you could post a link.

  5. #15
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    "addicts because they are inadvertently attempting to self medicate a hormonal or chemical disturbance"

    I've seen this myself with the people closest to me. My ex-best friend would drink diet coke all day long, beer all evening, and smoke cigs all day; pretty sure she was self-medicating something. My husband self-medicated since the age of 6 with 20+ cups of coffee a day; he finally got diagnosed with ADD/ADHD about 2 years ago and now takes Adderall; he needs it to be functional... I've seen him off drugs and it's not pretty. It's a lot better than using coffee, which was imperfect; he hated road trips because he had to pee constantly, for one thing. He takes two pills a day and is much better off for it, it allows him a normal and productive life.

    Point is, if you have health insurance that will cover it, you may want to pursue some conventional medicine to address the chronic fatigue and obsessive eating, especially since you have addiction in your past. Trying to address this by yourself with only dietary changes may not be enough, especially if you still have fatigue going on. Also, Adderall suppresses appetite, which could help with thinking about food all day long. Just saying, for those who need them, these drugs can be very helpful for people, in controlled and moderate doses, and a prescription makes it legal. If you do not abuse these drugs, they can help a lot. Adderall also comes in a slow-release form so you don't get a big hit you just get a constant dose (unlike cocaine, no one makes a slow release form of that, which is 1 disadvantage of illegal drugs). For my husband we found it so useful we paid the full cost of the drug out of pocket for awhile until we could get him on my insurance. The general practictioner was from India and hadn't even heard of ADD, but nevertheless gave him the referral he need to a good psychologist who could then diagnose and prescribe the meds. imo not everything can be cured by diet alone.
    Natural products super cheap @ iherb: Use discount code SEN850 at http://www.iherb.com/?rcode=sen850 for $10 off first order; free shipping $20+ order in USA

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by callison View Post
    Thanks YogaBare. I have put a lot of thought into that today of how many things cause ED's. Right now, I am eating a lot of food and gaining some weight, but still no sugar. I am not eating between meals and haven't binged as of yet. No carb cravings. I had a slight craving this afternoon, and I was tempted to get an Atkins low carb pseudofood bar. I decided to pass on that and just ate some extra tuna salad instead. The weight gain is bothering me, and I am eating large quantities of meats/veggies so I know I am earning the extra pounds. I am just hoping that I will become insulin/leptin sensitive and this mythical appetite reduction will rear its head.

    I can actually say that I remember a time when everything seemed to work right in my body and when I would gain some weight, my appetite would go away and I would lose it automatically - just like we are supposed to. In regards to the "off" switch, I am realizing now that I do have one, but it is taking a lot of food before I get the signal that I am full. Also, I have such a fear of being hungry that I think I eat more at meals than I need. It is like I am buying an insurance policy against binging with some extra food at meals. It is at least eliminating the habit of binging. I am practicing throwing part of the food on my plate away, so that I don't feel obligated to eat everything that is there. I just put a crap load of food on there so that although I eat a lot, I will still have some to toss. I am hoping to gradually decrease my portion sizes, but I am going to have to be very careful with this. It has been nice not thinking of food between meals. It is not just extra willpower, the thought of eating is appalling. I haven't experienced this in years. Although I did have some cravings this evening, they were before dinner and it was not difficult to pass on them. I think a little of this is carb flu.

    YogaBare - I did have a few strawberries with breakfast this morning for my fruit fix. I think I had like 3-4 and was fine with that. I am being cautious not to restrict, and really have not in any form or fashion except for limiting fruit. And pardon my ignorance, but I don't know how to look up your journal. I did a search and it did not return anything in the "journals" section. I would love to read it if you could post a link.
    Callison, sorry for the delay getting back to you - I didn't realise you had replied. A lot of what you're saying resonates with me too! I realised recently that I needed to break my conditioning with food, and for me that meant eating smaller meals, more frequently. It's working well for me so far: I have the freedom now to leave food on my plate, cos I know I can eat again whenever I want. In the past I had the same fear of getting hungry that you do, and I used to stuff myself at every meal to avoid it. Its so liberating not doing that anymore.

    That's for the interest in my journal! I think there might be a few things of value to you in there too. It's been quite a journey for me...! Not over yet. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread80832.html
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  7. #17
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    Thanks you guys for your replies! I hadn't logged in for a while and didn't see some of them. I have gotten nowhere but about 5 lbs heavier with this. It is ridiculous what I will eat sometimes. If I can't get any junk food, I will just make something out of whatever I can find in the house. It is quite disgusting some of the concoctions I have come up with just to satisfy a sugar craving.

    I had 3 good days of eating primal foods. I have cooked some and really enjoyed it. I was tracking my calories, not as a form of restriction, but putting it in at the end of the day to see what all I had - just out of curiosity. I didn't even realize I was doing it, but I had been eating around 1500 calories per day because I had no appetite. Today, I was unconsciously trying to keep my calories under that. I really didn't even realize I was doing it. It's like it was going on behind the scenes in my head. Lo and behold, my car drove itself to the store and somehow a half gallon of ice cream found its way into my mouth. So I deleted the stupid app.

    Here is my concern... I lift weights regularly. As I mentioned, I subscribed to a bodybuilding style diet. Last Saturday, I really overdid leg day and didn't realize it until the DOMS set in. This cranked up my appetite big time and I think my training is messing with my appetite. Also, I am obsessive about getting in enough protein and want to have enough carbs to fuel workouts, etc. It is interfering with me listening to my body because I am still eating what CW tells me to eat. I have considered dropping the weights for a while, but I have worked so hard for 2 years to earn the strength that I have and don't want to lose that. My dream was to compete in a bikini or figure competition. But it is kinda stupid to have all this muscle on me when all I am doing by trying to keep it is get fatter. Any thoughts?

  8. #18
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    This worked for me.
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread77555.html

    It has been over two months without sugar, after many, many years of lots. The first week was kind of difficult but after that, not a problem. I now don't even think about having sweets or soda. One other thing is don't get all stressed out about it. Relax, give up sugar, compete in a bikini competition.
    Have you read Mark's book?

  9. #19
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    Tee,
    Thanks for the link. It doesn't seem you were restricting portions or anything, with exception of maybe carbs? As of right now, psychologically, I have found that I cannot handle restriction of any type. I have tried repeatedly and failed and each failure leads me to getting fatter and fatter. I am currently the fattest I have ever been in my life and it really messes with my head. I think that I can avoid sugar as long as I am well fed. I used to be a diet soda junkie when I was thin and when I started binging I noticed that I didn't want diet soda on the days after a binge. I finally quit those but find that when I restrict the diet soda cravings come back. So, I think giving up sugar is going to require that I eat sufficient quantities of good quality food. Thank you for the post and congrats on the 2+ months without sugar. That is a feat in itself!

  10. #20
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    Thanks callison. I know if I can do it so can you. At first you'll think about sugar all the time, then on day you wont. Stick with it and you too will succeed. It definitely is a mind set with a bit of will power thrown in.
    What worked for me was telling myself "I will not eat anything with sugar in it today." Then start a journal here and write it down. Next thing you know a day, then a week, then a month, then a.... no sugar.
    Give it a try, I know you will do well.

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