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Thread: Why do some people do poorly on very Low Carb diet? page 4

  1. #31
    WeldingHank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    I think the workout thing is different where to get max output glycogen still rules, but it is worth looking at developing your fat metabolism further by doing workouts in a glycogen depleted state, you won't achieve your best performance, but over time you do get better, it's a strange kind of feeling, you don't get the lactate burning, there's just this kind of upper limit of force.
    Within the 4 types of muscle fibre a couple of them can build up special fatty stores, kind of like the glycogen thing, so by doing some workouts without the aid of glycogen this facility improves, then over time you can build up both sides and when it comes to the big day, you can really be a "Duel Fuel Beast".
    I still keto now and then, usually by accident over a weekend. So I end up depleted during mondays workout. So I go there, just not 24/7 like 3 months ago and the 9 months prior.

  2. #32
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    Leida,
    It's a pay for here $30, we had to research it and I had to tell the doc, yes it is available, just write it on the script.

    Not suggesting you should be VLC, eat whatever makes you feel well,
    I'm just curious to see what corrolations there are and how people can improve their health and what markers are actually relevant.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    Haven't done any numbers on it, but just on feel I think most of the negative responses on VLC have been from women with the whole metabolic slow down etc and lesser inclination towards IF then men, but I think most of the High Cholesterol outcomes on VLC have been from men, so these two may be flip sides of the same coin. This goes in line with the fact more women get autoimmune diseases, but more men suffer from heart disease, is the root cause the same, but because of hormonal differences between the sexes the disease manifestations are different.
    all manifestations of inflammation, which is what i believe starts out simply, and always unrecognized, and then turns into a fiery hell of ill health.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  4. #34
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    Yes, agreed
    Cut out Grains, Pufa's. processed foods etc.

    But, I'm looking for a bit more detail, eg is it valid to tell people that if they show a particular set of symptoms to hold carbs up a bit for a few years until their body heals more as against what I often see here coming from the people who do well on VLC simply telling individuals to push through it and some do ok, but many do much worse after months of dedication.

  5. #35
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    cutting out grains doesn't translate instantly to vlc. it's quite easy to be at 100+ gms of carbs with a bit of starchy tuber and fruit. i think many would do just fine between 50-100.

    however, as pb mentioned upthread, and i have seen it too, many who try to go lower don't do what they need to do to succeed. for example, the simple necessity of replenishing electrolytes due to the diuretic nature of ketosis, slips through the cracks more often than i can count.

    i am not trying to disagree that it's not for everybody and also agree that liver and kidney function play a vital role. but i only play a doctor on the interwebs.

    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post

    As leptin resistance often precedes insulin resistance by decades, does this mean that these individuals are pre-pre-pre-diabetic and that leptin levels should be checked before diving into a low carb diet.
    I don't know about this one...in all of the bloodwork I had in my lifetime, my fasting blood glucose was always perfect. I also had bloodwork done after going VLC paleo, and my blood glucose was unchanged. So, no indication of any type of pre-diabetes, and I'm someone who doesn't thrive on low carb.

    I also don't know about the leptin thing, either. When i was eating low carb, I never had satiety/hunger issues at all, ever. I just had crippling fatigue, depression, IBS, and hypothyroid issues. I don't know how to tell for sure, but I don't think any of that was related to leptin, since hunger signals were just fine.

    Just to toss out my own possibly crackpot theory, when I was trying to figure out why I wasn't thriving, one thing I came up with was that I suspected my adrenaline receptors were downregulated (I don't have adrenalinic responses to situations that should provoke it, such as losing control of my car on ice, etc). As we know, adrenaline is needed to convert stored fat into usable energy, so maybe if this function is impaired for some people, they can't get adequate energy from that pathway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    They probably aren't eating enough nutrient-dense foods like liver. With a true ketogenic plan, there truly is a general lack of micronutrients if you're not careful!
    I was (and still do) eating liver every week, in addition to a VERY nutrient dense diet that far exceeded the RDA in everything.
    Last edited by BestBetter; 03-18-2013 at 04:42 PM.

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    Just to toss out my own possibly crackpot theory, when I was trying to figure out why I wasn't thriving, one thing I came up with was that I suspected my adrenaline receptors were downregulated (I don't have adrenalinic responses to situations that should provoke it, such as losing control of my car on ice, etc).
    I am very excitable and get rush of blood/shortness for breath (fight or flight) response to very mild irritants. Heck, merging on a major thoroughfare causes it, let alone skidding the car....
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    I don't know about this one...in all of the bloodwork I had in my lifetime, my fasting blood glucose was always perfect. I also had bloodwork done after going VLC paleo, and my blood glucose was unchanged. So, no indication of any type of pre-diabetes, and I'm someone who doesn't thrive on low carb.

    I also don't know about the leptin thing, either. When i was eating low carb, I never had satiety/hunger issues at all, ever. I just had crippling fatigue, depression, IBS, and hypothyroid issues. I don't know how to tell for sure, but I don't think any of that was related to leptin, since hunger signals were just fine.

    Just to toss out my own possibly crackpot theory, when I was trying to figure out why I wasn't thriving, one thing I came up with was that I suspected my adrenaline receptors were downregulated (I don't have adrenalinic responses to situations that should provoke it, such as losing control of my car on ice, etc). As we know, adrenaline is needed to convert stored fat into usable energy, so maybe if this function is impaired for some people, they can't get adequate energy from that pathway.



    I was (and still do) eating liver every week, in addition to a VERY nutrient dense diet that far exceeded the RDA in everything.
    I believe you made a similar thread once and i responded that you prob had an adrenal axis issue and most people who do poorly on LC prob do to some degree. Its your body, not the way of eating thats the problem. The reason your blood glucose was unchanged is bc the hormones produced by your adrenals, cortisol, norepinephrine,etc help prop blood sugar up. Once you remove carbs, you are asking your adrenals to do more in terms of stabilizing blood sugar. This causes Hypothalamus, thyroid and/or adrenal issues which is why you had fatigue, depression, etc. Once again, its not that anyone doesnt thrive on relatively low carb, its that carbs for you help your adrenal axis handle the load you place on it. And in recovery, the body tends to get worse before it gets better.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeldingHank View Post
    I have come to think that keto is just the gateway to retrain a broken metabolism,
    then slowly re-introduce carbohydrate depending on activity.

    Everyone just needs to experiment.

    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    Well said, I agree with the use of keto as a gateway. I was strict Paleo for 4 months and kept carbs under 70 gms per day, dropped 48 lbs and reached my goal weight. At this point I started to focus on getting body fat under 12% and introduced some starches (yams, white rice etc.) and increased workout intensity with great results. Currently under 10% body fat and getting great strength gains. Recently read the Perfect Health diet and I am employing their recommendations.
    Keto or VLC as a gateway... I never thought of it this way but this makes sense! I thrived on VLC/keto for months. I had boundless energy, didn't need that much sleep, I was never hungry, and I was feeling great all the time. But then I stopped thriving. I slowly noticed IBS symptoms becoming more pronounced, hair loss and other hypothyroid symptoms coming to light. I thought it was something that would just pass, or maybe I was doing something wrong or not eating something I should have been. After everything I had read, I believed that VLC/keto/ZC made the most absolute sense and that I whatever I was experiencing was something that would just pass. The IBS just got so debilitating after a certain point that I had to change something. Like canuck416, I'm also following the recommendations of the PHD and have noticed quite an improvement in how I'm feeling. I still engage in daily fasting (16/8, sometimes more) but the addition of starches has really changed a lot for me, in a good way. So maybe I was thriving on keto while I was more "damaged," but stopped thriving after that point.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeldingHank View Post
    I still keto now and then, usually by accident over a weekend. So I end up depleted during mondays workout. So I go there, just not 24/7 like 3 months ago and the 9 months prior.

    Hank,
    My situation is very similar to yours. I started out very over weight and am now getting closer to my goal weight. About how many carbs a day have you found help your workouts? I may start slowly reintroducing carbs at least on BJJ days and see how it goes. Thanks!

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