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  1. #411
    VacillateWildly's Avatar
    VacillateWildly is offline Senior Member
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    Wow, sounds to me as though you're going through a huge psychological shift. Welcome to the world of anger I live here a lot.

    Anger is a response I think, and it's better to respond rather than to react. Sounds as though you did the former. It's great to let your friend know that you're angry with her and it's great to consider why you're angry exactly and what it means about your friendship.

    I deal with a lot of anger, I grew up in a rage filled environment and breaking the generational patterns is the test of my life. What isn't helpful for me is directing my anger internally, the consequences are never beneficial. It's better to rage at the world and be a bit of a nutter for a while that to direct it inwards.

    Isn't it interesting that your ED recovery is manifesting physically and emotionally (and spiritually?)

  2. #412
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    If your friend didn't know how to respond, it would have been the courteous thing to do to just come out and say, "Hey look, I'm really sorry you're going through this etc. but I don't know what to say," rather than try to get out of saying anything at all. Because then you just feel kind of like an idiot for pouring your guts out and not getting a response. That's frustrating, I'm sorry.

    I'm glad you told her why you were feeling the way you were. Not always, but most of the anger we direct at others is actually anger we have with ourselves. So I'll have to disagree with VW in that I don't really see a difference between obviously outward vs inwardly directed rage. I don't think either are healthy and that they're just manifestations of some fear that you need to deal with. In your case, you might have been afraid of the implications that your friend, the person you feel comfortable opening up to, didn't care about or was rejecting you in some way. I could be off base here, I'm not in your head, but that's just what I'm getting.

    If you continue to be honest with the people around you, like you were with your friend this morning, I think your anger will fade. Being an ass kicking, take-no-BS independent person and rage aren't mutually inclusive, contrary to popular belief :P

    P.S. Re: burdening other people with your issues, I feel the same way. Recently I've been opening up more but I keep most things to myself and am careful not to be negative too often. Tbh though, I think it's mostly because I think I don't need anyone else's help and that talking about things without getting any real advice (which is usually the case with friends) isn't practical (I know, what kind of female am I??). But then everything builds up and I end up oversharing.. Like I do here, on MDA Anyway, I think the key is to find mutual relationships rather than parasitic ones and you're definitely onto that. You do not need to exist just for anyone else's else's benefit!

    xo
    Last edited by ombat; 04-24-2013 at 05:07 PM.

  3. #413
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    I don't have anything wise to contribute, but just wanted to say I "hear" you Hugs.

    On fatigue, I'm surprised by all the fatigue you've been writing about. I'd had the impression that you had good energy with all the walking and yoga. Do you think this is coming from following Steve's work? It seems like you started writing about it around the same time... My head is fuzzy though, ignore me if I'm totally off.

  4. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    If your friend didn't know how to respond, it would have been the courteous thing to do to just come out and say, "Hey look, I'm really sorry you're going through this etc. but I don't know what to say," rather than try to get out of saying anything at all. Because then you just feel kind of like an idiot for pouring your guts out and not getting a response. That's frustrating, I'm sorry.

    I'm glad you told her why you were feeling the way you were. Not always, but most of the anger we direct at others is actually anger we have with ourselves. So I'll have to disagree with VW in that I don't really see a difference between obviously outward vs inwardly directed rage. I don't think either are healthy and that they're just manifestations of some fear that you need to deal with. In your case, you might have been afraid of the implications that your friend, the person you feel comfortable opening up to, didn't care about or was rejecting you in some way. I could be off base here, I'm not in your head, but that's just what I'm getting.

    If you continue to be honest with the people around you, like you were with your friend this morning, I think your anger will fade. Being an ass kicking, take-no-BS independent person and rage aren't mutually inclusive, contrary to popular belief :P

    P.S. Re: burdening other people with your issues, I feel the same way. Recently I've been opening up more but I keep most things to myself and am careful not to be negative too often. Tbh though, I think it's mostly because I think I don't need anyone else's help and that talking about things without getting any real advice (which is usually the case with friends) isn't practical (I know, what kind of female am I??). But then everything builds up and I end up oversharing.. Like I do here, on MDA Anyway, I think the key is to find mutual relationships rather than parasitic ones and you're definitely onto that. You do not need to exist just for anyone else's else's benefit!

    xo
    Hey Emma

    No, you're on the money. I'm the kind of person who doubts the validity of their own emotions, and tortures themselves by seeing things from all perspectives. It's left me privy to a lot of bullying, sexual harassment, abusive friendships etc. In the last eight years I thought I had broken the pattern, but during my yoga training my teacher was harassing me (true story), and it was only at the very end that I realised that it had happened, again.

    When I've attempted to break this tendency, and "not take shit" from people, I've generally fallen into a self pitying mode, which is also not helpful.

    I think what's different now is that I'm actually feeling angry, instead of reacting out of self pity. The anger is being birthed from a place of self respect. That place says: "Whatever. No man is an island, but I already have a lot of bridges. I give a lot to my relationships: I make people laugh, and I make them feel loved. I'm not asking for the world in return: all I want is that I can be bare." I'm so used to giving more than getting, and being who the other person wants me to be, that the concept of being open and receiving is really hard for me. But that's where the self respect comes in. And I think you're right that the anger will dissipate (as the self-belief grows).

    I use to think that walking away was an immature response, but I'm finding it extremely empowering and it's changed people's behaviour towards me better than explaining myself ever did. I'm seeing now that walking away gives the other person space to feel if they want my friendship or not. There is that fear of rejection implicit in it, but I know deep down that I will be okay.

    I'm glad that you're sharing on MDA! In a weird way, I think that this forum is a transitional place between the inside of my head, and the real world. It gives thoughts 'life', support and space to grow, before they are implemented in reality. Seems to be making things a lot clearer. Seems like you're having that experience too?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoMom View Post
    I don't have anything wise to contribute, but just wanted to say I "hear" you Hugs.

    On fatigue, I'm surprised by all the fatigue you've been writing about. I'd had the impression that you had good energy with all the walking and yoga. Do you think this is coming from following Steve's work? It seems like you started writing about it around the same time... My head is fuzzy though, ignore me if I'm totally off.
    Thanks PM

    HOnestly, the fatigue is nothing new. I go through phases where I feel great, and then I crash. This hasn't been a crash as such (apart from today - I feel like shit) but definitely a mark down in energy. So I can't really blame the temperature thing: I was about to and then realised that I went through the same thing when I started "eating a ton". It's part of my pattern.

    I really dream of a day when I can have all the energy to do all the things I want to do.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 09-26-2013 at 11:12 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  5. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post

    I really dream of a day when I can have all the energy to do all the things I want to do.
    Me too! I just hope my whole life hasn't passed me by before that happens. My dad has crazy amounts of energy, if we didn't look so much alike, I'd swear we weren't related. I think the biggest reason I've fallen into the OCD/orthorexia trap is trying to find a cure for my fatigue when doctors are so useless.

  6. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoMom View Post
    Me too! I just hope my whole life hasn't passed me by before that happens.

    I think the biggest reason I've fallen into the OCD/orthorexia trap is trying to find a cure for my fatigue when doctors are so useless.
    Oh dear lord, +1.

    How long have you experienced fatigue PM?
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  7. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by VacillateWildly View Post
    Wow, sounds to me as though you're going through a huge psychological shift. Welcome to the world of anger I live here a lot.

    Anger is a response I think, and it's better to respond rather than to react. Sounds as though you did the former. It's great to let your friend know that you're angry with her and it's great to consider why you're angry exactly and what it means about your friendship.

    I deal with a lot of anger, I grew up in a rage filled environment and breaking the generational patterns is the test of my life. What isn't helpful for me is directing my anger internally, the consequences are never beneficial. It's better to rage at the world and be a bit of a nutter for a while that to direct it inwards.

    Isn't it interesting that your ED recovery is manifesting physically and emotionally (and spiritually?)
    Hey Vac, The reason I always turned it inwards was cos' I also grew up in a violent envionment where the slightest thing would incur my mum's verbal and physical wrath. I came to believe that anger was not an appropriate response because We all hated my mum, so anger = hatred in my little head.

    I see some people who get angry all the time (my housemate) and they vent at everyone around them, and while they seem in a healthier position than me I don't know if they actually are...

    Thanks for the encouragement. Right now I feel like I've been hit by a bus so I don't know where the recovery is...
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  8. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Oh dear lord, +1.

    How long have you experienced fatigue PM?
    My whole life, even as a young child. Around 19/20 though it took on a new level of interference in my life, then around 25/26 when my kids came I was bedridden/zombie-like.

  9. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoMom View Post
    My whole life, even as a young child. Around 19/20 though it took on a new level of interference in my life, then around 25/26 when my kids came I was bedridden/zombie-like.
    That sounds quite like me (though without the kids ) I just can't help but wonder where it all started to go wrong.

    I hope you don't mind me asking, but did you experience any major trauma in your childhood?
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  10. #420
    ombat's Avatar
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    Totally get it. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and tend not to take things personally but there are people who will take advantage of that. There comes a point where some things you just don't have to put up with or have in your life and I don't think there is anything wrong with walking away from them. It doesn't show cowardess or immaturity; just the opposite. It shows that you know what you do or don't deserve and that you're willing to cut those things out of your life when they are a hindrance to you and your well being. This is the self respect of which you speak. You see your own qualities for what they are and I think that if you have any sort of self awareness (which many people don't, by the way) it's pretty easy to see what it is you truly deserve, continue to be a deserving person, and have the wherewithal to cut out the rest.

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