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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoMom View Post
    I've been hoping this also means I"m magically growing muscle laying around the house

    I don't think it would be bad to cut for a week. I wouldn't go longer than that without a break going back to what you're doing right now. I would also watch your morning temp really close and if you see any reduction I would go back to eating more until it comes back up.

    I realized it is going to take me 6 months at my current rate to get back to where I started (which was not my goal weight either) which was a bit depressing, yet on the other hand how exciting is it to be losing weight without trying and while eating what ever my body asks for? That makes me feel much more content with waiting for it to come off slowly. I'm pretty scared that if I restrict I'll be back where I started again. Better to lose it slowly and permanently while eating than to get through it quick but have to keep fiddling with my diet to do so. Besides, it is easier to make girlfriends when you don't look quite so good, kwim?
    You know, the thought of restricting again - even for a week, makes me feel like crying... It feels so good not to be caught in the cycle of binging and starving and purging and I just can't bear to do anything that might set me back there. At the same time, I feel like I've started gaining again. Don't know how, as I think I'm consistently eating less, but I'm up half an inch on my hips...

    I asked on the low body temp forum if anyone else had muscle pain when they started this process: one person got back to me and said no, and asked if I was sweating much or if it could be salt intake. What do you think?
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  2. #282
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    R.B.T

    Entry Five:


    Sleep:
    11:45pm - 7:00am. Woke up at 1:15 needing to pee. I was sweating and actually needed to take off one of my jumpers. Woke again at 6am, but fell back asleep, and woke at 7am. So pretty good sleep all-in-all!

    I realised that part of my problem with sleep is that my alcoholic flat mate keeps waking me by knocking stuff over / snoring / slamming around in his bed. I feel bad for him... the amount he drinks shocks me. But I hate wearing ear plugs!!

    Temperature:

    Upon waking: 36.7C! Really good. I actually didn't take it much today but feel like it's been high.

    Digestion:
    Warning: TMI ahead!!
    Had the runs today, and I've been really bloated. I wonder if it's from all the coconut oil? I've been eating a lot for the last two days.

    Energy and Mood:
    Not as tired as the last two days, but waves of tiredness do come over me, and I really could sleep. I'm working really hard on a project though, so my focus and mood are pretty good.

    Body:
    Skin: Starting to get a bit dry on the nose. My lips chapped and peeled today.
    Hair: Out of nowhere, it suddenly looks amazing!
    Fat: Ugh. I've put on half an inch on my hips. I'm hoping this is just bloat cos' if I'm gaining on this amount of food I'm going to be devastated that the EMTWL experiment was futile. At the same time, I can't bear the thought of cutting again. I just don't have the energy anymore...

    Food:
    Screen Shot 2013-04-19 at 00.53.21.jpg

    Breakfast: 7am: Banana, yogurt, spoon coconut oil.
    Snack: 11.30am, spoon coconut oil.
    Lunch: 1.30pm: ground beef in tomato sauce, rice.
    Dinner: 5pm: Rice, coconut milk.

    My appetite is definitely smaller because of eating more frequently. I haven't had a "big meal" in ages...

    Update:
    Had two interesting insights tonight:

    1) Often when I go out socialising - particularly if I drink red wine - I get hot flushes. A wave of burning heat will surge through me, rise to my head and erupt in angry red welts across my face. They keep coming, and my face gets swollen, red, and my whole body feels like it's on fire. I strip down to my t-shirt, but it never helps me cool down. of It's really uncomfortable, and stressful.

    I wasn't drinking tonight, but I was struck by a flush. Completely counter intuitively, I did the opposite to what I normally do: I put on more clothes. Instead of feeling "hot", I started to feel "warm". And weirdly, the flush stopped! I didn't get another one. Still working on a theory for this...

    2) Since I got back to London, I've noticed that I feel different. I feel detached from everything around me. And yet, because I feel detached, it's easier for me to be warm to the people I meet. I give people in shops glowing smiles and they beam back at me. I enjoy it, but the enjoyment is an afterthought.

    Tonight I felt that exact same detachment in a social situation. Normally I get anxious when I socialise in large groups, or with people I don't know that well (the hot flushes are linked), but tonight I felt completely removed, and yet able to enjoy myself. It's a really strange feeling not to be so emotionally invested.

    It seems like something shifted in me on a psychological level during the EMTWL experiment.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 04-18-2013 at 05:59 PM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoMom
    I realized it is going to take me 6 months at my current rate to get back to where I started (which was not my goal weight either) which was a bit depressing, yet on the other hand how exciting is it to be losing weight without trying and while eating what ever my body asks for? That makes me feel much more content with waiting for it to come off slowly. I'm pretty scared that if I restrict I'll be back where I started again. Better to lose it slowly and permanently while eating than to get through it quick but have to keep fiddling with my diet to do so. Besides, it is easier to make girlfriends when you don't look quite so good, kwim?
    Are you basing this off of the last time you were at your current measurements, and presumably while trying to lose weight off of SAD? If so, then I bet it takes less time than that because your body is already much healthier than it was the last time you were trying to lose. Don't you think? Anyway, I agree. The last thing you want is to revert back to where you were before you started all of this.

    YB - Do you honestly feel like your appetite is less eating so many meals per day? Also, I know we are all completely different, but it looks like you are not eating very much meat and are eating quite a bit of sugar (fruit, actual sugar). I always feel like shit if I do this (and get very bloated and gain weight). Is there a specific reason for the macros you've been consuming or just something you've fallen into?

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    YB - Do you honestly feel like your appetite is less eating so many meals per day? Also, I know we are all completely different, but it looks like you are not eating very much meat and are eating quite a bit of sugar (fruit, actual sugar). I always feel like shit if I do this (and get very bloated and gain weight). Is there a specific reason for the macros you've been consuming or just something you've fallen into?
    Eating several times a day has been the biggest food epiphany for me. Three meals a day made me obsessive about eating. Two meals a day (IFing) was even worse. Eating when I like means I don't have to stuff my face cos' I'm scared of getting hungry before my next "set meal time".

    Regarding my macros: my diet is currently very Ray Peat influenced... I'm going to keep trying new things til I find what feels right. I've done the high fat, high protein - it's not for me.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 04-18-2013 at 04:55 PM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Eating several times a day has been the biggest food epiphany for me. Three meals a day made me obsessive about eating. Two meals a day (IFing) was even worse. Eating when I like means I don't have to stuff my face cos' I'm scared of getting hungry before my next "set meal time".

    Regarding my macros: my diet is currently very Ray Peat influenced... I'm going to keep trying new things til I find what feels right. I've done the high fat, high protein - it's not for me.
    Gotcha. It's interesting how very not one-size-fits-all eating is. I would go absolutely bonkers eating that many meals a day :P Glad you found what works best for you.

    Btw, I can probably predict your response to this but.... do you think it would be really bad to cut calories for a week to lose some weight? Women in London are exceptionally beautiful and thin, I'm starting to socialise again and I feel so big!
    Alright... I almost couldn't tell if you were mocking or being serious here. If the latter, then: I thought this was exactly what we're trying to get away from! Case in point: it is impossible not to compare ourselves to others. I feel like the tiniest person ever with the exception of the three hours per week that I sit next to the anorexic girl in one of my classes. All of a sudden I look down at my thighs and think, "moo".

    The other day one of my closest friends, a male in his 40's, said to me, "You've gained weight. You look great. You look healthy. You looked like a twig before. It wasn't attractive. Now you look sexy." Honest to god this was a direct quote. And I don't even have boobs.

    And so not only would I like to concur with badgergirl, but I would like you to take a moment and think about what these women's lives are like. Don't you think they are restricting in order to look that way? Don't you think they are always hungry? Don't you think they are tired and brittle and their hair is about to fall out? I know this isn't a great argument considering you (and well, most of us, me included) kind of feel like crap right now, but don't you think you have a bit more peace of mind than these women right now? And isn't that what matters? Don't get me wrong - I feel exactly as you do - but I think we can step back and look at what we've gained (poor choice of words).

    Have you read any of the articles by Stefani Ruper? She talks a lot about fertility, eating disorders, and is an almost nauseating advocate of self love (I kid... sort of) but this is one of my favorite blog posts of all time. I would tell you how much this moved me, but then I would have to kill you.

    Edit: Sorry, I engaged myself so much there that I forgot to say that if you want to try "restricting" then by all means go ahead. Like a said a little while ago I have been eating less as well, but only so much that I am not hungry. There is probably an amount of food less than what you're eating now that will still satiate you. Try to find that but don't go under it. What do you think?
    Last edited by ombat; 04-18-2013 at 10:13 PM.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    I asked on the low body temp forum if anyone else had muscle pain when they started this process: one person got back to me and said no, and asked if I was sweating much or if it could be salt intake. What do you think?
    I don't know, I'm not sweating much now and my salt intake is the same as it usually is and I'm still having the muscle pain. I was sweating more for a bit and I also upped the salt intake for a bit, but mostly it has been the same as before I started all of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    Are you basing this off of the last time you were at your current measurements, and presumably while trying to lose weight off of SAD? If so, then I bet it takes less time than that because your body is already much healthier than it was the last time you were trying to lose. Don't you think? Anyway, I agree. The last thing you want is to revert back to where you were before you started all of this.
    I was basing this off of my weight loss over the last few weeks. I've been averaging a half pound loss per week now while eating as much as my body wants (but not as much as I can ) It's a nice place to be, just slow.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cierra View Post
    Your last journal entry was really interesting for me to read! I have a few opinions on various things that you discussed, though ...

    -- When you said you were having digestion issues, and then remarked about how much you were sweating during the night, experienced chapped lips, and have been recently noticing that you aren't peeing much, my first thought is that you're dehydrated. I'm not sure if this is true, but maybe your water/salt intake could be a bit low?
    -- If it is dehydration, that could possibly mean you are retaining water, which would explain the bloating and even the possible gain on your hips.
    -- I noticed that under "body" you have a subtitle of "fat." Don't you think that's a little bit harsh on yourself? I mean, just because you gain or lose an inch here or there doesn't mean that it's fat! I know I'm not one to speak about body image, however, maybe you could come up with a nicer term for yourself regarding measurements, just so that whenever you DO gain, it doesn't have to mean that you're getting fatter! You could be getting more muscular, or, as I said before, retaining fluids. Just a thought.

    I was also wondering if you read the thread "What I Gave Up" ( http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread83345.html ) in relation to you feeling so intimidated by being social around people you consider to be thin and beautiful. I really connected with the article on a lot of levels, even though that kind of sucks. I was having a "fat day" recently, too, and was doing some research as to why, exactly, I feel "fat" when I'm not. It, of course, has to do with EDs, and I kind of found a bit of information that helped me a bit through the feelings. One of them were the studies and experiments showing what men honestly prefer in a woman, rather than what types of women were portrayed on television. Here's one: TheVine - New revealing figures - Life & pop culture, untangled
    I'm not sure if that makes you feel any better about your situation, but time after time, my SO tells me that it doesn't matter as much if you're very thin or have a few extra curves; what matters is, is that you're confident about what you've got! If you look healthy, and look happy, and are willing to let go and have fun (a topic that the "What I Gave Up" article touches on a lot) then that is definitely the most attractive. And, from what you've posted most recently, your warm glow and inviting smile to strangers around you is putting you in that category, for sure.

    Hope you had a great time on your night out on the town!
    Hey lady,

    Thanks for your suggestions I don't think I'm dehydrated - I'm drinking sooo many fluids atm and not peeing them out, so I'm guessing I'm absorbing them! And my hips did go down a bit, so I guess it's just bloat. The thing about bloating though - it still makes me bigger, and I remember teh days when bloating was three inches less on my hips Anyway.

    I'm a bit embarrassed now about my last two entries! I was actually being tongue-in-cheek when I wrote 'fat'., but you're right, it's totally harsh. I need to stop thinking of myself like that. As for all the beautiful people... jeez - insecure much YB?!

    Thank you - that article really does help.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    Gotcha. It's interesting how very not one-size-fits-all eating is. I would go absolutely bonkers eating that many meals a day :P Glad you found what works best for you.

    Alright... I almost couldn't tell if you were mocking or being serious here. If the latter, then: I thought this was exactly what we're trying to get away from! Case in point: it is impossible not to compare ourselves to others. I feel like the tiniest person ever with the exception of the three hours per week that I sit next to the anorexic girl in one of my classes. All of a sudden I look down at my thighs and think, "moo".

    The other day one of my closest friends, a male in his 40's, said to me, "You've gained weight. You look great. You look healthy. You looked like a twig before. It wasn't attractive. Now you look sexy." Honest to god this was a direct quote. And I don't even have boobs.

    And so not only would I like to concur with badgergirl, but I would like you to take a moment and think about what these women's lives are like. Don't you think they are restricting in order to look that way? Don't you think they are always hungry? Don't you think they are tired and brittle and their hair is about to fall out? I know this isn't a great argument considering you (and well, most of us, me included) kind of feel like crap right now, but don't you think you have a bit more peace of mind than these women right now? And isn't that what matters? Don't get me wrong - I feel exactly as you do - but I think we can step back and look at what we've gained (poor choice of words).

    Have you read any of the articles by Stefani Ruper? She talks a lot about fertility, eating disorders, and is an almost nauseating advocate of self love (I kid... sort of) but this is one of my favorite blog posts of all time. I would tell you how much this moved me, but then I would have to kill you.

    Edit: Sorry, I engaged myself so much there that I forgot to say that if you want to try "restricting" then by all means go ahead. Like a said a little while ago I have been eating less as well, but only so much that I am not hungry. There is probably an amount of food less than what you're eating now that will still satiate you. Try to find that but don't go under it. What do you think?
    Hey Ombat, thank you for the sweet message! As I just said to Cierra, I'm a bit embarrassed about writing all that... bloody hell, Insecure Street! London has not been good for my confidence. It's so competitive in every way. But you know what, this experiment has really just made me think fuck it. I still have (big) moments of panic, but in general life is too short to stress about it for long. What sucks is wardrobe limitations - I love tight jeans and sparkely tops, but now I'm limited to skirts and dresses.

    I was tossing around the idea of cutting cals, but I don't think I can face it right now... maybe at the end of the month, when things have settled a bit... it's all too mad right now. Are you planning to cut, or go with the flow?

    Thanks for that article! I actually found this one this morning, which I loved and thought was beautiful. I really like Matt Stone's attitude. http://180degreehealth.com/2013/04/t...-trouble-spots
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  10. #290
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    R.B.T

    Entry Six: [rant]

    Today was a disaster.com.

    Sleep:
    Not good. Three hours last night!!! 1am - 4am.

    BUT - something positive came out of it: I found an amazing article that gives further credence to the Adrenals-Bodytemp-Sleep connection. It also supports the hypothyroidism possibility.
    The speed of the pulse is partly determined by adrenaline, and many hypothyroid people compensate with very high adrenaline production. Knowing that hypothyroid people are susceptible to hypoglycemia, and that hypoglycemia increases adrenaline, I found that many people had normal (and sometimes faster than average) pulse rates when they woke up in the morning, and when they got hungry.
    My pulse usually feels like it's pounding, even though it's close to 75bpm. When I wake at night it's usually with a jolt and a racing heart. I get low blood sugar. High fat people would say it's cos I'm a "sugar burner". This makes more sense.
    But hypoglycemia also tends to decrease the conversion of T4 to T3, so heat production often decreases when a person is hungry. First, their fingers, toes, and nose will get cold, because adrenalin, or adrenergic sympathetic nervous activity, will increase to keep the brain and heart at a normal temperature, by reducing circulation to the skin and extremities.
    I noted before that my temperature drops if I don't eat Yes - my nose starts to run, and suddenly my socks are wet. I guess this explains why I sweat so much too!
    Despite the temperature-regulating effect of adrenalin, the reduced heat production resulting from decreased T3 will make a person susceptible to hypothermia if the environment is cool. Blood sugar falls at night, and the body relies on the glucose stored in the liver as glycogen for energy, and hypothyroid people store very little sugar. As a result, adrenalin and cortisol begin to rise almost as soon as a person goes to bed, and in hypothyroid people, they rise very high, with the adrenalin usually peaking around 1 or 2 A.M., and the cortisol peaking around dawn; the high cortisol raises blood sugar as morning approaches, and allows adrenalin to decline. Some people wake up during the adrenalin peak with a pounding heart, and have trouble getting back to sleep unless they eat something
    Bingo! Once I wake up I generally can't get back to sleep unless I eat. When I first discovered Primal I thought it was hypogleceimic insomnia, which made sense, but this takes the theory one step further.

    The mistake I made last night was that I went to bed a bit hungry, and not as warm as usual (even though I was wearing as many clothes. Possibly the hunger dropped my temperature. The article quoted was from Ray Peat, of course Full article here.

    Temperature:
    I'm increasingly skeptical if oral temp should be the only one I measure. Heat rushes to my head. A few times I've been shivering, with ice cold hands, feet, and a body temp in the 97s but my oral has been ideal. Peat thinks that the temp of extremities should be measured. I don't know if that's the ideal way, but I do think I need to take a range of temps into consideration.

    Energy and Mood:
    Very tired, and very upset. Went to the doc today for blood test results. Full story here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread83507.html

    Body:
    Skin: Looks crap today. Very lined. I guess it's from the lack of sleep.
    Hair: One good thing - still looks amazing! I'm very happy with this... I even took a pic! (now im like Derp )
    Size: Back down the a quarter of an inch.

    Food:
    I ate a lot today. I usually do when I sleep badly, but mostly today I ate from stress. I just can't seem to deal with stress by myself. Maybe this should be the next thing I tackle.

    Annoyed - I ate some dates and I realised after I finished them that they had gluten in them!! I'm anal about checking ingredients for HFCS / veg oils / soy, but it didn't occur to me to check a packet of dates.

    Final Thoughts:
    I'm pissed with the reactions of a few people on the forum to my cholesterol. They blamed my few tea spoons of sugar / eating several times a day (?!) for the exponentially high cholesterol. everyone's cholesterol goes up on a high fat diet! I presume they meant well, but that's either deluded or else intentionally taking a cheap shot when I was vulnerable. (The irony is that I'm way more "Primal" than Ray Peat! I eat refined sugar, and sugar free gum, and those are my only deviations from "Primal approved" foods!)

    I don't understand why people can't open their minds that different things work for different people. I wanted low carb primal to work for me. It was a disaster in every respect. FOR ME. I would never say it can't work for others, because who the fuck am I to make that assumption?

    BUT that's just focusing on the minority of people who weren't supportive. 99% of people who replied to that thread were amazing. I got so much helpful advice and I feel a million times better. So thanks again to MDA. Thank god I have people I can talk to here. I can't tell anyone in reality about my results cos they would freak / say "you and your fucking diets".

    Having this stuff as an interest can be isolating.[/rant]
    Last edited by YogaBare; 04-19-2013 at 03:11 PM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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