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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    Sounds like you had a crappy day (other than the initial good temp). I would be groggy and hungry if I only got 4 hours of sleep too...

    Thought you might find this interesting:

    On Saturday around midnight I had an extremely large, salty, (primal) meal (it was our university's lu'au). I woke up Sunday morning feeling ill and couldn't stomach the idea of food until noon when I had a few fried eggs. I had to go out to dinner that evening, which was light: a bun-less burger, hand full of french fries, and a couple of bites of custard. Overall, markedly less food than I've been eating on a daily basis. Well, Monday and Tuesday I have been shoveling food down my face hole like it's going out of style. I really find it improbable that one day of undereating should elicit such a reaction. However, I did eat a little bit of dairy (sweet potatoes cooked in butter at the luau and the bite of custard) which I am pretty sensitive to (congestion, toxic reactions) and therefore do not eat except on very rare occasion like this one, so perhaps that is causing the hunger for some reason. Eating out, which I rarely do can also lead to cross contamination (gluten sensitive as well) so that could be another issue. Or it's completely psychological. Or it's a perfect storm. I have no idea.
    Hey Ombat, I actually totally know what you mean! Some days are "hungry days" (and I'll eat a lot), some days I'm not hungry (so I won't eat much), or some days I've got hunger but no appetite (so I'll eat to maintenance). It seems to go in cycles.

    Personally I'm trusting that my body knows best, and I'm just going with that. In the past when I had hungry days it would turn into a binge, because I'd try to fight my body and then I'd cave and eat all around me - sometimes for a few days, cos the day after a binge I was always hungry again (it's like a hangover I think). These days when I have a hungry day (like yesterday), I just go with it. I presume my body is regulating itself, so maybe hunger is a sign that the metabolism needs a kick. Then today I had hunger but no appetite - maybe today I was burning some fat? Who knows.

    Anyway, maybe you needed two days of eating a lot, or maybe you needed one day of eating a lot and you made it two for psychological reasons. What do you think?

    Edit: sorry, completely ignored the food sensitivities! Eating out can definitely effect hunger, but I wouldn't imagine it would last for two days...
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Hey Ombat, I actually totally know what you mean! Some days are "hungry days" (and I'll eat a lot), some days I'm not hungry (so I won't eat much), or some days I've got hunger but no appetite (so I'll eat to maintenance). It seems to go in cycles.

    Personally I'm trusting that my body knows best, and I'm just going with that. In the past when I had hungry days it would turn into a binge, because I'd try to fight my body and then I'd cave and eat all around me - sometimes for a few days, cos the day after a binge I was always hungry again (it's like a hangover I think). These days when I have a hungry day (like yesterday), I just go with it. I presume my body is regulating itself, so maybe hunger is a sign that the metabolism needs a kick. Then today I had hunger but no appetite - maybe today I was burning some fat? Who knows.

    Anyway, maybe you needed two days of eating a lot, or maybe you needed one day of eating a lot and you made it two for psychological reasons. What do you think?

    Edit: sorry, completely ignored the food sensitivities! Eating out can definitely effect hunger, but I wouldn't imagine it would last for two days...
    Right, the binging is exactly what I'm trying to not let it get to. I tried to fast as long as I could this morning, but when I got hungry I ate a little. I was still hungry so I ate a little more. Now I will probably be fine until much later this afternoon, as usual. But I presume if I had just tried to fight the hunger then it would have ended later tonight in disaster.

    Also, I just realized that I'm about a week away from my period, which is usually when my appetite gets out of control anyway. Add in the food sensitivities, the low calories on Sunday, and it's no wonder I'm here.

    Up until recently, I would have no idea what you meant by "hunger but no appetite" but that's also something I've been experiencing recently as well. Part of me thinks it's just laziness: "I have to get off the couch and go into the kitchen to get something to eat??" :P

    Thanks for the insight!

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    Up until recently, I would have no idea what you meant by "hunger but no appetite" but that's also something I've been experiencing recently as well. Part of me thinks it's just laziness: "I have to get off the couch and go into the kitchen to get something to eat??" :P

    Thanks for the insight!
    My pleasure

    It's interesting, isn't it? Some days as soon as I feel the hunger I have to eat, and then other days I feel it but it doesn't affect me... My theory is that on the "no appetite" days I'm mobilising fat. But hey, just a theory

    I think the more we go with it and trust that our bodies are guiding us in the right direction, the more we'll understand how they work.

    Don't fight the hunger if you want to eat. Personally my priority right now is getting over the ED, not being skinny but - I can see that even with a few very high cal days a week my overall cals are dropping, so the weight loss will come... it just doesn't feel like it when you're eating a lot! But yeah, I'm convinced that binging and shit food are the things that make people fat, not eating to appetite.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  4. #274
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    Entry Four: Tired


    Gonna be another short entry as I'm still exhausted today.

    Sleep:
    11.30pm - 6am, 7am - 9.15am: 8.5ish hours!

    Great sleep! I woke for an hour at 6, but I dozed off again without even having to eat or drink anything (normally that's the only way I get back to sleep). I actually think that this body temp / adrenaline thing might be the main cause of my insomnia. There are other factors too (light sleeper, sensitive to noise), but right now, this seems to be it.

    Even if none of my other complaints get sorted through this N=1, finding a solution to insomnia would be more than I believed possible. My goal is to be sleeping 8 hours a night consistently.

    I'm going to start monitoring it on Fitday and see if I'm gradually sleeping more.

    Temperature:
    Temp this morning was 36.8C! Maintained at 37C for most of the day. Interestingly, I took an hour long walk in the avo, with tons of jumpers on. After half an hour I started to sweat, but not as much as I would ordainarily, and I didn't go red. Maybe I'm getting more tolerant to the heat? When I came back my temp had dropped to 36.4C.

    Right now I'm just going by oral temp, but I'm wondering if I should only take that as a measurment? My body temp is a lot lower than the temp in my mouth (today at one stage my oral temp was 37.1C, and my body temp was 36.4C). All the heat goes to my head, so it seems counter intuitive that I would only look at that...?

    Energy and Mood:
    Pretty knackered again today, but not as bad as yesterday. I definitely could have napped, but had too much to do.

    But mood-wise, feel pretty good!

    Food:
    Kind of hungry again today, but not like yesterday.
    Screen Shot 2013-04-17 at 21.27.50.jpg

    Ate pretty small meals:
    Breakfast: 9.15am - yogurt and banana
    Lunch: 1.30pm - coconut soup with beets and prawns
    Snack: 3pm - Persimmon
    Snack: 4.30om - coconut oil, dates, gelatine (AMAZING combination!!)
    Dinner: Cottage cheese.

    Theory: Water and heat.
    Still not peeing much at all! It's almost unreal. Drinking the amount I'm drinking would normally have me peeing 12-18 times per day, now I'm prob going 5-7 times!

    When I'm hot, I release sweat: when I'm cold, I pee. I also get nasal drip, but I haven't figured out the pattern yet. My body seems to release water in response to heat and cold.

    Other observations:
    My body has been aching since I started this... all my muscles hurt me. I wonder if it's cos blood is flowing to them now and they're going through some inflammation-induced healing?

    Libido is still here - yipee!

    Final thoughts:
    No progress with Steve yet, but so far I'm already seeing marked improvements in sleep, libido, and general well being (even though I'm tired).

    Still craving sugar. I wonder if my adrenals are going through some sort of healing? It would make sense that they are: I'm keeping my lower back warmer than it's ever been, and I'm keeping warm in general which (according to Steve) means that I'm not releasing adrenaline to keep my body temp up. Sugar craving is associated with the adrenals. Does sugar help the adrenals heal? OR, do people crave sugar when they have weak adrenals in order to rev up the thyroid?

    Ray Peat says:
    "If your thyroid is working efficiently, your pituitary doesn't have much to do and... your adrenals don't have much to do... The other glands have an easy job when your thyroid is working right."
    Interesting.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 04-17-2013 at 01:40 PM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  5. #275
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    Did the fatigue start when you began Steve's protocol?

    I've been peeing less too and I've been having the sore muscles. I've had it since starting to eat more but since trying to keep the daytime temp up I have been experiencing it even more. Up until yesterday I haven't had much physical activity and certainly nothing to warrant sore muscles. They feel very weak and drained in the kind of way you feel right after a good weight lifting workout, but not like in a general fatigue sort of way if that makes any sense.

    I don't know if this is helpful, it is barely different from what Zach has recommended to you, but I used to do the "Hibernation Diet". It sounds funny and is rather quirky, it was nothing but taking 3-4 tablespoons (no, I did not mean teaspoons) of honey right before going to sleep. He thought it to be the best fuel for the liver to keep you deep asleep and help your body do more restorative work at night. I used to have lots of trouble with my sleep when I had first heard of this and it put me right into a deep sleep that I stayed in all night and woke up more refreshed. I had almost forgotten this little trick! It is certainly painless and quite yummy, although I do enjoy honey more when I don't have to eat SO much. I tried it with less honey and received no benefits.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoMom View Post
    Did the fatigue start when you began Steve's protocol?

    I've been peeing less too and I've been having the sore muscles. I've had it since starting to eat more but since trying to keep the daytime temp up I have been experiencing it even more. Up until yesterday I haven't had much physical activity and certainly nothing to warrant sore muscles. They feel very weak and drained in the kind of way you feel right after a good weight lifting workout, but not like in a general fatigue sort of way if that makes any sense.

    I don't know if this is helpful, it is barely different from what Zach has recommended to you, but I used to do the "Hibernation Diet". It sounds funny and is rather quirky, it was nothing but taking 3-4 tablespoons (no, I did not mean teaspoons) of honey right before going to sleep. He thought it to be the best fuel for the liver to keep you deep asleep and help your body do more restorative work at night. I used to have lots of trouble with my sleep when I had first heard of this and it put me right into a deep sleep that I stayed in all night and woke up more refreshed. I had almost forgotten this little trick! It is certainly painless and quite yummy, although I do enjoy honey more when I don't have to eat SO much. I tried it with less honey and received no benefits.
    Tbh the fatigue is not new in general: part of the reason I've been doing all this stuff is because I get burnt out really, really easily. I just noticed this period of fatigue a lot cos' I was feeling so amazing for the last two weeks of eating more. But actually, I feel good so far today!

    And yeah - my muscles feel exactly like that! That's why I hypothesized that maybe they are flush with blood atm - like the way blood rushes to muscles after training to build and repair them?

    Thanks for the honey tip - eating a heap of sugar before bed definitely helps! Hopefully some day I'll be able to sleep without dietary aid... the temperature thing is looking like it's helping a lot!

    Btw, I can probably predict your response to this but.... do you think it would be really bad to cut calories for a week to lose some weight? Women in London are exceptionally beautiful and thin, I'm starting to socialise again and I feel so big!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Women in London are exceptionally beautiful and thin, I'm starting to socialise again and I feel so big!
    I was there ten years and was neither (thin, at a push, but never exceptionally so). I think you apply different filters to everyone else than you do to yourself. No doubt you are seen by others as beautiful and shapely. Guarantee it.
    My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60211.html Into RPG table top games? Check out FateStorm and (in development) Vanguard!

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by badgergirl View Post
    I was there ten years and was neither (thin, at a push, but never exceptionally so). I think you apply different filters to everyone else than you do to yourself. No doubt you are seen by others as beautiful and shapely. Guarantee it.
    Great point, badgergirl! I agree completely.
    Life is not a matter of having good cards, but of playing a poor hand well.

    - Robert Louis Stevenson

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by badgergirl View Post
    I was there ten years and was neither (thin, at a push, but never exceptionally so). I think you apply different filters to everyone else than you do to yourself. No doubt you are seen by others as beautiful and shapely. Guarantee it.
    Wise words BG. Thanks!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Tbh the fatigue is not new in general: part of the reason I've been doing all this stuff is because I get burnt out really, really easily. I just noticed this period of fatigue a lot cos' I was feeling so amazing for the last two weeks of eating more. But actually, I feel good so far today!

    And yeah - my muscles feel exactly like that! That's why I hypothesized that maybe they are flush with blood atm - like the way blood rushes to muscles after training to build and repair them?

    Thanks for the honey tip - eating a heap of sugar before bed definitely helps! Hopefully some day I'll be able to sleep without dietary aid... the temperature thing is looking like it's helping a lot!

    Btw, I can probably predict your response to this but.... do you think it would be really bad to cut calories for a week to lose some weight? Women in London are exceptionally beautiful and thin, I'm starting to socialise again and I feel so big!
    I've been hoping this also means I"m magically growing muscle laying around the house

    I don't think it would be bad to cut for a week. I wouldn't go longer than that without a break going back to what you're doing right now. I would also watch your morning temp really close and if you see any reduction I would go back to eating more until it comes back up.

    I realized it is going to take me 6 months at my current rate to get back to where I started (which was not my goal weight either) which was a bit depressing, yet on the other hand how exciting is it to be losing weight without trying and while eating what ever my body asks for? That makes me feel much more content with waiting for it to come off slowly. I'm pretty scared that if I restrict I'll be back where I started again. Better to lose it slowly and permanently while eating than to get through it quick but have to keep fiddling with my diet to do so. Besides, it is easier to make girlfriends when you don't look quite so good, kwim?

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