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  1. #181
    Zach's Avatar
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    Fantastic entry! So much win that i have to comment in the quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    E.M.T.W.L

    Entry Twenty-Seven: Piecing a Jigsaw


    After yesterday's entry, Zach directed me to a Matt Stone article on body temperature. Nested within it was a gem of a find. This amazing book by a guy called Steve Richfield, on the phenomenon of low body temp. I devoured it last night, and began re-reading today. I haven't figured it all out, but in this entry I'll attempt to break down what I learned.

    First im glad you took the time to read it all, now i can just ask you about the details.

    Low Body Temp:
    When a person's body temp is low (which mine is), they release adrenaline because this hormone raises body temp. People who are stuck at low body temperature use excessive amounts of adrenaline just to keep going. When you run out, your temperature drops. And you crash.

    In Richfield's words:



    Flashback: This was me yesterday!!!

    Being underslept drops your body temp. Since my body temp is always low, I'm always running off adrenaline, and yesterday it all caught up on me, and I crashed.

    Considering Richfield described word-for-word what I had written in my entry yesterday, reading that book felt pretty serendipitous.

    Before I go further:

    If you're interested in body temp you should really check out Wilsons Temperature Syndrome. A lot of the time when people suspect they are hypothyroid but their bloods come back negative, they actually have this. It's a great site with tons of info.

    Sleep:
    I started implementing the suggestions in the book immediately.

    I put on way more bed clothes than I usually do. Leggings, PJ bottoms, two pairs of socks, a t-shirt, a long sleeved t-shirt, and a jumper (that's a sweatshirt to the Yanks ). I always sleep under two duvets, and last night I slept with them over my head.

    I slept from 11pm - 7.15 am. More than eight hours! I think through the course of this journal that's only happened two or three times.

    Body temp drops at night. If my temp is already low, then my body has to produce more adrenaline to keep my temp up. This stops me from turning into a corpse, but it's likely the adrenaline is also effecting my sleep: making it fitful, or too short. Keeping very warm meant that I wasn't dumping adrenaline, and could sleep soundly. Which I did!

    Imagine if my chronic insomnia was caused my low body temp.

    I probably shouldn't even be writing this with only one night's sleep to use as evidence! Only time will tell how significant a piece of the puzzle this is.

    The only other thing that could attribute to the good sleep was that I ate a ton of honey yesterday late avo. Sugar always helps me sleep. I wonder if it's cos' it raises body temp?

    I think this is pretty significant even at only one night. I experienced the same. And yes a good dose of sugar/salt and saturated fat before bed is sure to raise temp and blunt adrenalin but it can only last for so long. It sounds like you have weak adrenals (or just overworked) so the slightest change will dump adrenalin. Like i said before, a bag of sugar/salt mixture on the nightstand is a great trick for getting back to sleep quickly.

    And that's not all...

    Digestion:
    I've mentioned a few times that I have IBS-A, though these days it's predominantly IBS-C.

    Steve says:



    So, low body temp => more adrenaline => activates vagal system => makes you constipated.
    And conversely, your bowels jump into action when your temperature is up.

    Sorry if this is TMI, but usually when I get up first thing is I pee, and I often don't 'go' until much later in the morning. This morning I got up and 'went' straight away! I literally don't remember that ever happening before. Is this what it's like for normal, warm blooded folk?!

    This one is really interesting and something i had not heard before. Some TMI here but whenever im not having a steller day, my poops are not steller either. Usually i will go like clockwork every morning until i get stressed out.

    And there's more...

    Temperature:
    Upon waking: 36C (96.8F)! Okay, that's still way too low, but it's higher than it's been before
    Upon Richfield's recommendation, I took my temp a few times more throughout the day:

    Sitting at my desk: 35.8C (96.44F)
    Walking around: 36.3C (97.34F)
    Right after a strong yoga practice: barely 35.5C (95.9F)!

    The last one is weird. When I exercise I get really hot in the face, really red, and sweat a lot. I feel really hot. So how could my body temp be so low then?

    The theory I developed over the last few weeks is that my body temp is 'set' low, and therefore my body fights to maintain it by sending all the hot blood to the surface of my skin, and sweating. This keeps my core cold, but makes me feel like I'm in a firey furnace. Considering my "after exercise temp was so low, this theory now actually makes sense.

    I didn't take my temp in the avo, but I wore a lot of layers and was walking around a lot, so I felt pretty warm.

    Your theory is spot on and why any exercise can be counter productive to restoring health through thyroid and metabolism. Its just too much of a stress for you to handle right now. My best advice here would be to bundle up, slow it down and try to keep the sweat wiped off. Also another good idea could be to have a snack or drink you bring into the session and constantly consume sugar throughout. This almost guarantees that it will keep adrenalin blunted. I remember reading about a fellow Peatarian who would consume a litre of sugar water during his exercise. He was very lean and said it worked wonders, i still have been meaning to try this although im of the thought that emptying and filling glycogen is a good way to keep insulin sensitive and build larger stores. Making this a hot water drink might even add to the win. Oh and thyroid meds.

    And one last thing...

    Energy and Mood:
    Yesterday, when I crashed, my mood also crashed. I felt low. I don't recall any time that crashing made me feel particularly exuberant (!) but I always attributed the low feeling to the psychological burden of not having the energy to do what I want. Then in Steve's book I read:


    It might explain why I feel so much happier in warmer climates, and why I was in such good form last fortnight in my parents (very warm) house. Maybe people don't get SAD. Maybe the low mood that characterises winter is due to low body temp?

    Ray Peat has already noted that thyroid meds need to be upped in the winter. This could be the low temps the body has to fight or lack of sun or both. Get as much sun as you can!

    I have to say as well - today I had lots of energy, and I felt really happy. Same way I've been feeling for a lot of the last two weeks, really.

    Anyway, that's it with the Richfield worship. I recommend reading the book, needless to say

    Betenin HCl:
    Took today with a very high fat, high protein brunch. I still didn't feel anything after six pills! Guess I'll take seven tomorrow...

    Some people dont actually get the feeling. If you feel nothing off of 7 then drop down to a maintenance dose of 3. Stay there until you feel something.


  2. #182
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    And now i wanted to just write a thought out that your post made me think of. I have this friend, my best friend actually. He is a complete freak of nature, no matter what he does to himself he cannot be phased. He drinks at least 12 beers a day, smokes over a pack, smoke at least a 1/8th of weed a day, stays up till 4am and wakes up for work at 7, literally getting 3-5 hours of sleep a night, trashes his body with his job, barely eats at all during the day and has one big meal at night with his beer and drinks the rest of his calories, the food he eats is complete garbage. In spite of all those negatives he is one of the naturally strongest people i know pound for pound. He is an absolute sex-aholic, getting off at least 3 times day and women cant get enough of him, hes lean, he always has energy to spare and never gets hurt or gets a cold.

    Now this kid has stumped me for years and i think i just now figured out why he is able to be basically super human. He always has ran hot. He cant be in hot temps because he burns up, sweats buckets and whatnot. He feels best in winter and never wears much in the way of winter clothes. He can literally turn a bed into a swimming pool with how much he sweats at night and any physical activity leaves him dripping. Basically his body temp must be running well over normal, 24/7.

    This is huge, i know its only one person but i would wager that any bullet proof, manly man, whatever you want to call it person will have a high body temp. Not athletes per say but more like alpha male, conqueror types. And now the last piece of the puzzle, why does he always run hot no matter how much he fucks his body up? Because his thermostat has been stuck that way. Just like most get stuck on a low setting, i bet there are rare people who are stuck high. I have read that having a slightly high temp can cure many diseases and of course thats why fevers work so well.

    Super interesting stuff, thanks YB for bringing it up!

  3. #183
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    All of this about body temperature is very interesting. I've always had a low temperature (97's) and experience I similar thing with cold/sweat. I am almost always freezing, but the colder I get, the more I sweat! The weird thing is, I do terribly in hot climates. I think my body just can't regulate its own temperature very well. I also have adrenal problems. I'll be very interested to see if the massive layers thing works for your sleep. Despite always being cold, I get very warm at night and can't wear much to bed. Maybe I have a different problem then you.

    Zach, just to add more evidence to your case, I have a friend who, like yours, drinks massively (although it's bottles of wine a day, not beer), does drugs throughout the week (amphetamines, hallucinogenics/psychedelics/psychoactives, tranqs, mushrooms, anything anyone will give him, really), gets about 4-5 hrs of sleep per night, barely eats a thing, and is one of the most active people I know, both mentally and physically. And, to top it off, he walks around in flip flops and short sleeves when the rest of us are bundled in parkas. So maybe body temp does have to do with it.

  4. #184
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    Hmmm Yogabare, now you have me thinking. You posted a while ago about your cold bum and I spent most of my life with cold buttocks!. I have also described myself as always suffering from thee cold. Since eating primal my body temp, which used to swing wildly through the day,has mostly stabalised. I no longer feel as perpetually freezing as I used to.

    My body temp has always been significantly lower than most peoples, I haven't taken my morning basal temp for years, but you've inspired me, I'm going to do it again. My extremities are always cold in winter, I am always cold in winter, but winter in Sydney not quite the same as north-eastern England sub-zero winters. I shake and shiver in my winter bed too. I (used to be) constantly constipated, always.

    The seasons have just shifted and I've felt cold the last few days. I have a jumper on now and can feel the cold in my shoulders and round my head, it gives me a sensation in my jaw. Nobody else in our house gets cold like me. My son is sitting in shorts and t-shirt right now and I've asked him so many times if he wants a jumper on that he is getting annoyed with me. I'm cold and uncomfortable.

    I will read that book. And I'm buying a thermometer this weekend. Interesting, your progress continues. Thanks for your insight, we are similar kinds of fish I think.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    All of this about body temperature is very interesting. I've always had a low temperature (97's) and experience I similar thing with cold/sweat. I am almost always freezing, but the colder I get, the more I sweat! The weird thing is, I do terribly in hot climates. I think my body just can't regulate its own temperature very well. I also have adrenal problems. I'll be very interested to see if the massive layers thing works for your sleep. Despite always being cold, I get very warm at night and can't wear much to bed. Maybe I have a different problem then you.

    Zach, just to add more evidence to your case, I have a friend who, like yours, drinks massively (although it's bottles of wine a day, not beer), does drugs throughout the week (amphetamines, hallucinogenics/psychedelics/psychoactives, tranqs, mushrooms, anything anyone will give him, really), gets about 4-5 hrs of sleep per night, barely eats a thing, and is one of the most active people I know, both mentally and physically. And, to top it off, he walks around in flip flops and short sleeves when the rest of us are bundled in parkas. So maybe body temp does have to do with it.
    Thanks for the anecdote!

    I think there might be a few things going on here. There are people like our friends with chronically high temps, i dont know if there is a name for this. There are people who are hypothyroid with cold temps who benefit from warming things and there are people like you and YB who have a lowered temp brought on maybe by this Willis disease? And you are uncomfortable with any temp that is not close to your own. There might be some crossover with the hypo and low temp people but for me personally i was diagnosed with subclinical hypothyroid which i have since cured with different means. This fits perfectly with me that i dont do well in colder environments when stressed and warm therapies work wonders for me, i cant get enough hot.

  6. #186
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    Very interesting read. I was very unwell for years before finding this way of life....... and one of my concerns was my low body temp. Mainly in the 35Cs (95). The doctor wasn't even interested except to say - why are you bothering to take your temp so often ??????
    To those of you - in the know- can you acquire this T3 stuff in a natural suppliment - or do I need to go to a Doctor ??????
    "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

    ...small steps....

  7. #187
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    My dad is one of these superhumans. He eats a ton, stays thin, doesn't workout but can up and hike a tough 30 miles on a snickers bar no problem, he wears guys out 1/3 his age, sleeps like 5 hours at the most a night. Now somewhat recently his wife has been very strict over their food. They avoid starches and get carbs only from fruit and veggies, avoid fat and salt. They eat out a lot and will eat a salad a split the entree. My dad used to be able to eat a ton without gaining but now has to share meals and has probably cut back 30% of calories or more with all these things. Now for the first time ever he is seeming to slow down a bit, complaining of being cold and unable to warm his hands and feet.

    I don't know what to think of body temperature. I used to always be freezing when living in a damp temperate climate (winters in the 45-55 degree range but with high humidity) but since moving to a place that gets colder in the winter (20's) but is much, much drier I feel a million times warmer. I find that the dryness makes it more comfortable, so I go out wearing less and the more I do this the warmer I get as my body adapts to the cold. There is a huge difference in the temperatures that I tolerate at the beginning of the winter than at the end. Fall I'm all bundled up at 50 degrees, feeling like it's freezing, yet by spring time I can go out in a tee shirt and flip flops at the same temp and feel very comfortable. I have never liked the heat and have been feeling hotter at lower temps as my temperature has gone up which has me very worried for tolerating the summer heat. I would like to be more comfortable in the heat, as I am getting to be in the cold. I also think this idea of sleeping warm is odd. I'm surprised to hear so many people enjoy this, I have always been completely unable to sleep in the heat. I like to feel warm under the blankets but I like the blankets to keep me warm and not a hot room. It feels like breathing cold air is really important for my sleep.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZ primal Gwamma View Post
    Very interesting read. I was very unwell for years before finding this way of life....... and one of my concerns was my low body temp. Mainly in the 35Cs (95). The doctor wasn't even interested except to say - why are you bothering to take your temp so often ??????
    To those of you - in the know- can you acquire this T3 stuff in a natural suppliment - or do I need to go to a Doctor ??????
    It might be much harder to get in New Zealand but i can order it through various companies online. Usually you would need a prescription. There are some natural desiccated thyroid pills that you can buy without prescription but usually the dose is very weak, still some have used them with success.

    The only problem with self medicating it there are a few different forms of thyroid hormone. Anyone trying it should definitely get a full thyroid panel done beforehand. Once done though, its not all that hard to self dose going on symptoms and temp alone. I have never gone through with it though because i found i was very sensitive to medication. Food and lifestyle changes was all it took for me. Others i think really need the extra kick to get on track.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoMom View Post
    My dad is one of these superhumans. He eats a ton, stays thin, doesn't workout but can up and hike a tough 30 miles on a snickers bar no problem, he wears guys out 1/3 his age, sleeps like 5 hours at the most a night. Now somewhat recently his wife has been very strict over their food. They avoid starches and get carbs only from fruit and veggies, avoid fat and salt. They eat out a lot and will eat a salad a split the entree. My dad used to be able to eat a ton without gaining but now has to share meals and has probably cut back 30% of calories or more with all these things. Now for the first time ever he is seeming to slow down a bit, complaining of being cold and unable to warm his hands and feet.

    I don't know what to think of body temperature. I used to always be freezing when living in a damp temperate climate (winters in the 45-55 degree range but with high humidity) but since moving to a place that gets colder in the winter (20's) but is much, much drier I feel a million times warmer. I find that the dryness makes it more comfortable, so I go out wearing less and the more I do this the warmer I get as my body adapts to the cold. There is a huge difference in the temperatures that I tolerate at the beginning of the winter than at the end. Fall I'm all bundled up at 50 degrees, feeling like it's freezing, yet by spring time I can go out in a tee shirt and flip flops at the same temp and feel very comfortable. I have never liked the heat and have been feeling hotter at lower temps as my temperature has gone up which has me very worried for tolerating the summer heat. I would like to be more comfortable in the heat, as I am getting to be in the cold. I also think this idea of sleeping warm is odd. I'm surprised to hear so many people enjoy this, I have always been completely unable to sleep in the heat. I like to feel warm under the blankets but I like the blankets to keep me warm and not a hot room. It feels like breathing cold air is really important for my sleep.
    Tell your mom to knock it off, dad needs his food! That is pretty crazy and weird that so far, everyone like this only sleeps 5~ hours a night. Wonder if they get a much deeper sleep and are recharged after only one cycle.

  10. #190
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    thanx Zach - so if I ask the Doctor for a full thyroid panel, are there any other bloods I should have done at the same time ?
    I have had Cholesterol done and it has gone from really good - to amazing..............
    "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

    ...small steps....

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