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  1. #1771
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    Primal Fuel
    I've been LC for as long as I can remember. But really, it wasn't very consistent, it was more like trying not to eat carbs, then giving in and having periods of carb eating where I would gain fat, feel terrible about myself, then force myself back to VLC for months at a time. The LC thing started in high school (I'm 34 now), when my mom got on a LC kick and 'wanted the best for her not-super-skinny kid. SO, the binging started about then too, in part from feeling guilty about wanting to eat foods my mother didn't approve of, and in part I think from restricting.
    In recent years, I've done VLC for months at a time, then I get physically ill when I eat meat or too much fat. So in come the carbs and I regain any small amount of weight I've lost.
    I am pretty active, and really like to work out. When I eat VLC I feel like shit and can't work out much. But I've always thought this a sacrifice to being thin. Weird to actually type that out b/c it sure sounds like nonsense.
    If there is a way to eat that I enjoy, that gives me good energy for hard workouts, AND allows me to drop some fat, I want to try it. What I've been doing all these years has never felt like it fit the bill. I'm a healthy weight, about 136lbs at just below 5'7, but I'd like to improve body comp more. I think I have a bit of body dismorphia, b/c I never seem to see change in the mirror, and I am usually pretty disgusted w/ myself.

    So, YB- sorry I don't mean to clog up your journal here. Just a couple questions:

    - How to best gauge body comp improvement? Body fat testing? Pix?
    - What is gelatin? Big Z mentioned it as well.... the kind that comes in a box? Do you actually make jello from it? I'm confused.
    - I've read a lot of your journal, and seen how your diet has changed. Are you still currently keeping fat low and carb/prot high? What are your diet staples these days? I'm struggling with keeping fat low- it's always been the biggest macronutrient % for me, and old habbits (and taste buds) die hard. Without grains, and not forcing myself to eat meat, I'm sorta lost. Plus I HATE being hungry.

    SO, thanks for your wisdom!

  2. #1772
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireFinder View Post
    I've been LC for as long as I can remember. But really, it wasn't very consistent, it was more like trying not to eat carbs, then giving in and having periods of carb eating where I would gain fat, feel terrible about myself, then force myself back to VLC for months at a time. The LC thing started in high school (I'm 34 now), when my mom got on a LC kick and 'wanted the best for her not-super-skinny kid. SO, the binging started about then too, in part from feeling guilty about wanting to eat foods my mother didn't approve of, and in part I think from restricting.
    In recent years, I've done VLC for months at a time, then I get physically ill when I eat meat or too much fat. So in come the carbs and I regain any small amount of weight I've lost.
    I am pretty active, and really like to work out. When I eat VLC I feel like shit and can't work out much. But I've always thought this a sacrifice to being thin. Weird to actually type that out b/c it sure sounds like nonsense.
    If there is a way to eat that I enjoy, that gives me good energy for hard workouts, AND allows me to drop some fat, I want to try it. What I've been doing all these years has never felt like it fit the bill. I'm a healthy weight, about 136lbs at just below 5'7, but I'd like to improve body comp more. I think I have a bit of body dismorphia, b/c I never seem to see change in the mirror, and I am usually pretty disgusted w/ myself.
    I hear you on the body dysmorphia, and feeling disgusted. I don't know if you saw my current pic a few pages back, but I know objectively that I'm not overweight, and yet, I feel disgusting. I have a lot of body hate. Are you the same, and if so where do you think yours comes from?

    I think weight gain happens when people switch from HFLC to eating carbs again is that they don't lower their fat intake. It seems that HF + HC = fat gain. Personally LC isn't as effective for me as a weight loss mechanism - the times when I've been super skinny were when I was on a practically no-fat diet.


    So, YB- sorry I don't mean to clog up your journal here. Just a couple questions:

    - How to best gauge body comp improvement? Body fat testing? Pix?
    - What is gelatin? Big Z mentioned it as well.... the kind that comes in a box? Do you actually make jello from it? I'm confused.
    - I've read a lot of your journal, and seen how your diet has changed. Are you still currently keeping fat low and carb/prot high? What are your diet staples these days? I'm struggling with keeping fat low- it's always been the biggest macronutrient % for me, and old habbits (and taste buds) die hard. Without grains, and not forcing myself to eat meat, I'm sorta lost. Plus I HATE being hungry.

    SO, thanks for your wisdom!
    You're not clogging at all - I'm glad you reached out! If I can help in any way I will.

    - There's no one reliable method to gaging progress on weight loss - except possibly using body fat callipers. Pics are useful, but a lot of it depends on lighting, positioning etc. Measuring tape trumps weighing scales. I was going to say that it's mostly about how you feel in your clothes, but if you've got body dysmorphia, then numbers are useful to keep you sane. I used to measure my hips every morning (obsessive, I know) but I stopped because I finally realised that the daily fluctuations mean nothing. This is about building towards goals. I'm planning to do a fortnightly weigh-in, measure, and progress pic day. I could buy callipers to measure body fat, but I don't want to get obsessed with another arbitrary number.

    - Gelatine is collagen obtained from animal's bones. The ancestral movement is big into bone broth, but for an easy gelatine injection a lot of people just use the boxed stuff (which normal people use in baking ). You can make jello or sweets, or you can simply add it to a hot drink. I add it to raspberry tea, coffee, regular tea. Make sure you buy beef gelatine, not pork (it's healthier). I buy this one: Powdered Gelatine - Dr. Oetker

    - Believe me, I HATE being hungry too! If starch affects you badly then you're probably like me in that you've got unstable blood sugar and that causes you to get panicy when you're hungry?

    - In the last three months I changed my diet to Ray Peat. Since then I don't feel hunger in the same way... I rarely get that sense of urgency to eat, and if I feel hunger pangs they are easily ignored. The food is incredibly satiating too.

    There's a thread going called "What did you Peat today?" and you can see there what people following this woe are eating. I eat tons of shell fish, gelatine, cottage cheese and fruit. I lost 8 lbs in four weeks! A combo of cutting my fat intake (I rarely get more then 30-40gs per day now), and also how much this diet satiates / suppresses the appetite.

    What kind of exercise are you doing btw?

    Hope this helps! Oh, and where in the UK are you?! I'm in London!
    Last edited by YogaBare; 09-09-2013 at 04:20 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  3. #1773
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    Hey lady,

    I'm not saying that with more exercise your body comp won't improve (I'm certain it will) but I'm wondering what you ideal body comp really is? What are you striving to look like and is it something realistic? It most likely isn't the case that you will ever look like what you did when you were in the throws of your ED without, well, going back into the throws of an ED. But again you may or may not be striving for that. So, my original question... where are you trying to end up? I don't want you to be struggling for something that isn't healthfully unobtainable.
    Hey girl, don't worry - I'm not planning on returning to the Skeletor look I just want to get back down to 19% bf. I don't think it's an unreasonable goal. However, you're so right in that I need to stop putting myself under so much pressure. Hammering my body doesn't do me any favours. I need to change my goals and aim for optimal health with lots of strength and fitness improvements

    Rosacea

    I realised last night that Peat has an article about this! Rosacea, inflammation, and aging: The inefficiency of stress

    Accoring to him, rosacea is a side effect of depressed mitochondrial activity. His suggestions for it are the same as his suggestions for everything: thyroid blah-blah-blah, but he does cite this very interesting example:

    A 37 year old slightly alcoholic man with a bright red nose and cheeks was an amateur fiction writer, but he was having trouble with his memory for words, and for everyday events. Even conversationally, he had to struggle for relatively familiar words. On the suggestion that riboflavin might help his memory, by allowing his brain cells to use oxygen more efficiently, he had his doctor give him an intravenous injection of B vitamins.

    When I saw him the next day, his conversation was perfectly fluent, and he obviously had easy access to a good vocabulary. Just as noticeable was the normal color of his nose and cheeks. For a week, he had a daily injection of the B vitamins, and his nose color and vocabulary stayed normal. But on the weekend, after not having the shots for two days, his nose and cheeks were again maraschino cherry red, and his speech was halting, as he struggled for words. He forgot the whole episode, and neglected to return to the doctor for more of the vitamin injections. Ten years later, he had developed a medium-sized potato nose, and had his heart valves replaced.

    His vitamin requirements were apparently abnormally high.
    I wonder if someone like me (with rosacea) has higher Vit B requirements than the average person? I was pretty sure I noticed an improvement with my flushing when I was taking the Brewer's Yeast. I guess it's time to find a really good Vitamin B sup and see!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  4. #1774
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    I think my body distain comes from the fact that at a young age it was made pretty clean that thin=good and fat=bad. Still that way in my family. ugh.

    This Peat stuff is interesting. I've been trying the dairy, and feeling awfully bloated and icky, a little sick to my stomach, low energy. I also had some gelatin- about 10-15g's- not sure if that might be making me feel icky? I wonder if I'll adjust to the dairy? I cut it out a few years ago b/c of stomach upset. I'll keep reading up on it. Maybe it's my next big thing.

    I wonder if there is a way to just eat. Not to follow any protocol, but to eat well rounded meals of whole some food, based of off what one feels like eating. That's my ultimate goal. And of course to be thin.

  5. #1775
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    I'm glad to hear that. And even though you have realistic expectations I understand the mindset for wanting more. Just as long as you don't get sucked in Also I feel as though my question came off as mildly condescending; I didn't mean it as such.

    Re: vit B, I've been taking B3 (niacinamide) and that's been helping tremendously with my skin. Are you meaning to take a multi B? I'm thinking of switching over to see what happens but I wasn't sure about the consensus on doing so.
    Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

  6. #1776
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    Monday, 9th Sept

    Had the strangest experience this afternoon. Woke up lying face down on my bed, and didn't even remember going to sleep..! My raw thyroid arrived today and I took a capsule after lunch, I wonder if that could have affected me? Or maybe I'm just exhausted.

    I'm still not back to myself actually. My pattern for the last three months has been: feel amazing -> get period -> crash completely: feel depressed, exhausted, and eat loads for two / three days -> return to feeling amazing. I got my period on Friday, and it has been different to the last 5 periods... milder. I didn't crash completely or eat loads... I've still been doing stuff, but I do feel blue, and it's lasted four days now. Today was probably the worst I felt - I haven't moved around much and didn't even get dressed..! Really hoping I'll be back to normal tomorrow. I have to be - I have loads of shit to do.

    Sleep
    Slept a lot better last night - solid sleep from 11.30pm - 5am. Wonder if it was the addition of salt to my milky drink?

    Exercise
    Wanted to swim and lift again today, but was too tired. I did body weigh stuff instead: quite a bit of handstand practice - nearly achieved scorpion handstand! 80 split squats, bridge, side plank. Will do some other stuff later.

    Food
    Craving sugar and caffeine like a mo-fo today! Had three coffees first thing in the morning (normally I have one), then two teas with sugar, then another coffee after lunch, then another tea with sugar...

    I guess I need the energy.

    6am - 300gs cottage cheese, 2 nectarines
    10am - mango and orange juice with sups (aspirin x 2, vit D x 2, Vitex, 4 x b complex)
    12pm - 600gs cottage cheese, 300gs raspberries (which I just found out are NOT Peat but... life's too short to give up my favourite fruit ), three shots of maple syrup, Raw thyroid.
    2pm - 300gs cottage cheese (I know...), galia melon
    6pm - 50gs goats cheese, green tea jello.
    7pm - table spoon of coconut oil (supplemental), hot milk w/gelatine, sugar, salt.
    8pm - hot milk with sugar and salt

    I'll eat something else, just not sure what. No idea how many cals that is... 2K?

    I must have had 8 envelopes of gelatine today!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FireFinder View Post
    I think my body distain comes from the fact that at a young age it was made pretty clean that thin=good and fat=bad. Still that way in my family. ugh.

    This Peat stuff is interesting. I've been trying the dairy, and feeling awfully bloated and icky, a little sick to my stomach, low energy. I also had some gelatin- about 10-15g's- not sure if that might be making me feel icky? I wonder if I'll adjust to the dairy? I cut it out a few years ago b/c of stomach upset. I'll keep reading up on it. Maybe it's my next big thing.

    I wonder if there is a way to just eat. Not to follow any protocol, but to eat well rounded meals of whole some food, based of off what one feels like eating. That's my ultimate goal. And of course to be thin.
    I doubt it's the gelatine - it's much more likely to be dairy. A lot of people have trouble with it - particularly if you haven't eaten it for a while?

    No need to rush into Peat! It took me six months of reading his stuff before I took the plunge... and even then it wasn't a conscious decision. Just happened.

    Some people can definitely just eat what they want and be thin and healthy! But, my personal theory is that issues with food arise because on a subconscious level we are trying to self medicate with it. I'm sure now that my BED was caused by a need for some nutrient that I wasn't getting. I've realised that I need A LOT of carbs to function well, but I also a health condition and I think on some level my body is calling out for specific nutrients to help bring it back into balance. Most people are probably imbalanced in some way, and maybe that's why we get these urges. Maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    I'm glad to hear that. And even though you have realistic expectations I understand the mindset for wanting more. Just as long as you don't get sucked in. Also I feel as though my question came off as mildly condescending; I didn't mean it as such.

    Re: vit B, I've been taking B3 (niacinamide) and that's been helping tremendously with my skin. Are you meaning to take a multi B? I'm thinking of switching over to see what happens but I wasn't sure about the consensus on doing so.
    You didn't sound condescending at all! I understand what you mean. It actually just reminded me of the sanity and weight loss thread that was going on ages ago... when certain people were basically telling the slimmer people (who wanted to be slimmer still) that they should just accept what weight they were and stop making them feel bad about being heavy.

    Anyway, after that thread I reached my highest ever weight, and I was trying to force myself into the mentality of "this is my weight, it's fine, there's nothing I can do", and then as soon as I switched to Peat I lost 8 lbs So basically, I know my body, and I know this isn't my weight. But I don't seem to have much control over how / when the weight comes off, so for now I've got to do my best and roll with it. And, I know this sounds strange (I can say it to you), but on a spiritual level I feel like the weight is a physical sign of baggage I'm still holding onto... and as I lose the baggage, I'll lose the weight. That's why there's a plateau right now I think.

    Lol - no, I meant I was going to start taking niacinamide! Most of the time I just write "Vit B" cos I can never remember how to spell it I read earlier that niacinamide helps with acne... and leprosy!!! Always good to know.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 09-09-2013 at 12:13 PM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  7. #1777
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  8. #1778
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    Quote Originally Posted by badgergirl View Post
    And I'll just leave this here....

    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  9. #1779
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    Sorry you are feeling blue. Oddly, today has been the first day in a while that I'm more like myself, finally. Do you know why you are feeling the way you do? I know for me it's in part situational, in part out of the blue (no pun intended).
    I think getting good amount of sodium is super important for me, in order to get decent night's sleep. I remember you once mentioned you were not getting hardly any sodium, if I recall correctly.

    No need to rush into Peat! It took me six months of reading his stuff before I took the plunge... and even then it wasn't a conscious decision. Just happened.
    It's funny you wrote this in response to FireFinder. I have been thinking about this lately and for the life of me I can't remember exactly how, why or even exactly when I jumped in on the Peat bandwagon. Beware severe triteness ahead --- it was like it was meant to be for me.

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