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  1. #1361
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    Primal Fuel
    I didn't cut calories at all when I started exercising. And I ate a crap diet too.

    I think your routine looks good. You have to be patient though. It might take a while before the weight comes off.

    Also, when you do sprints, do you do them fasted? In order to maximize fat loss from doing sprints, you should do them fasted and not eat for two hours afterward. Well, you could eat within the two-hour window as long as you eat something that doesn't trigger an insulin spike (so I guess it would have to be 100% fat). The reason is that the increase in metabolism that you experience post-sprint is caused by increased HGH production, which occurs during a 2-hour window after your sprint, and insulin suppresses HGH production so eating during that window will counteract some of the benefits of the sprint.

    If you don't like to work out fasted, you can eat a protein/fat meal beforehand, and then don't eat anything until 2 hours after the sprint.

    It's not so bad if you do them early in the morning (make sure you eat enough carbs the day before).

  2. #1362
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    The causes for panic attacks seem to be quite varied. My sister had them for years after some laced weed triggered the first one. It took her forever to get off of anti-anxiety meds. She actually still might be on 1/4 of a child's dose or something. It's completely placebo at this point...

    Mine (I'm fairly certain) were triggered by a couple of people close to me dying tragically and unexpectedly in quick succession. I was given meds but my mom rarely gave them to me (smart woman) and would just sit and read to me every night so I could fall asleep until I eventually ceased having them about a year later. For a few years after that I would have them if I slept somewhere unfamiliar (a friend's house, hotel, etc.) but I don't have any issues with that anymore.
    That's really interesting about your sister - drugs can definitely do that to some people. I've had experience in that region. These are substances that have a very profound effect on the body: there's a reason that so many indigenous cultures used them as spiritual tools. In our culture we have no understanding of them / abuse them, but yet they are the same substances. And when some people start to have experiences after taking them, it's classed as a mental illness.

    I think panic attacks are mostly associated with emotional stress. It's probably nature's way of allowing us to process heavy trauma. Have you heard of a book called "Waking the Tiger"? It refers to an animal's response to stress; how they "shake it out". Probably you processed all your trauma through those panic attacks, so you stopped having them! Meanwhile I repressed all my trauma, so instead of processing it, it festered within me, causing all kinds of problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by diene View Post
    I think your routine looks good. You have to be patient though. It might take a while before the weight comes off.

    Also, when you do sprints, do you do them fasted? In order to maximize fat loss from doing sprints, you should do them fasted and not eat for two hours afterward. Well, you could eat within the two-hour window as long as you eat something that doesn't trigger an insulin spike (so I guess it would have to be 100% fat). The reason is that the increase in metabolism that you experience post-sprint is caused by increased HGH production, which occurs during a 2-hour window after your sprint, and insulin suppresses HGH production so eating during that window will counteract some of the benefits of the sprint.

    If you don't like to work out fasted, you can eat a protein/fat meal beforehand, and then don't eat anything until 2 hours after the sprint.

    It's not so bad if you do them early in the morning (make sure you eat enough carbs the day before).
    Thank you! Yeah, I just realised that I've only been exercising since 28th June That's not really much time. Damn you yoga bare, and your psychotic impatience!!

    I've read the theories about spiriting and meal timings... I just don't think I can do it! Anything about controlling my eating is too much work for me. It's literally easier for me to starve myself than to control meal timings / portion sizes etc. Healthy!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  3. #1363
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    If you don't think you can do it then don't worry about it. There are a lot of theories out there, but honestly I'm not sure just how much of a difference it really makes.

    Sent from my LG-VM696 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

  4. #1364
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    Alcohol Recovery

    I must have made about 30 posts on MDA today...! The reason? I'm massively hungover and unwilling to get out of bed

    Last night we threw a party, and I drank way too much. Half a bottle of red wine, a bottle and a half of champagne. Total binge drink. And guess what happened? I binged-binged. Not a huge amount of food, but the rapid, mindless, desperate eating, was there.

    I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. And weirdly, I'm quite non-plussed about it. It doesn't mean I'm going to start doing it all over again.

    It made me realise how much I hate drinking now. I had a social dependency on alcohol and drugs for most of my twenties, but my taste for alcohol totally disappeared when I did my yoga teacher training. I didn't drink for a year... then I started again, and enjoyed it. But these days I still don't drink much - and the last two times I drank (last Saturday and SUnday), I really didn't enjoy it. I went to bed at 4am last night - my housemates stayed up til 4pm drinking and taking drugs...! That used to be me.

    I took pics yesterday of my body, and I'm really pleased at the progress I've made in just three weeks of exercise! I haven't dropped any fat, but the muscle definition is improving. Hoping to get some advice from people on the Fitness forum about how I could hack my regime. May end up posting it on the nutrition forum if no one replies.

    Also, has anyone heard of / read "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot"? Looks interesting.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  5. #1365
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    That's really interesting about your sister - drugs can definitely do that to some people. I've had experience in that region. These are substances that have a very profound effect on the body: there's a reason that so many indigenous cultures used them as spiritual tools. In our culture we have no understanding of them / abuse them, but yet they are the same substances. And when some people start to have experiences after taking them, it's classed as a mental illness.

    I think panic attacks are mostly associated with emotional stress. It's probably nature's way of allowing us to process heavy trauma. Have you heard of a book called "Waking the Tiger"? It refers to an animal's response to stress; how they "shake it out". Probably you processed all your trauma through those panic attacks, so you stopped having them! Meanwhile I repressed all my trauma, so instead of processing it, it festered within me, causing all kinds of problems.
    I just don't think she's the kind of person who's emotionally equipped to handle those kinds of experiences and so she wound up with long-ish term issues because of it.

    I just read some reviews of that book and it sounds very interesting and like something I would want to read. You could definitely be right; maybe my body is smarter than I give it credit for? I've always been glad that my mom rarely gave me the medication even though it meant that I had to deal with the attacks for so long. I think it's because I knew that I never would have truly dealt with things on my own if she had.

    Do you think you're dealing with what you've repressed?
    Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

  6. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    I just don't think she's the kind of person who's emotionally equipped to handle those kinds of experiences and so she wound up with long-ish term issues because of it.

    I just read some reviews of that book and it sounds very interesting and like something I would want to read. You could definitely be right; maybe my body is smarter than I give it credit for? I've always been glad that my mom rarely gave me the medication even though it meant that I had to deal with the attacks for so long. I think it's because I knew that I never would have truly dealt with things on my own if she had.

    Do you think you're dealing with what you've repressed?
    What do you think makes somebody emotionally equipped to handle things? It's interesting that you are sisters, but respond so differently to events. Was there a difference in your upbringing?

    I have a PDF of that book - let me know if you want it and I'll email it to you

    Honestly, I don't know. I've been trying to "deal with things" for eight years, and a few months ago I stopped trying. I realised there's a balance between processing and ruminating. Control is a big thing. The transition came in the journal.

    I don't have nightmares any more, so I guess that's an indication!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  7. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    What do you think makes somebody emotionally equipped to handle things? It's interesting that you are sisters, but respond so differently to events. Was there a difference in your upbringing?
    Things in general? There are many, to be sure, but I think an open-mindedness to the inevitability of change is key. I think our obsession with security is a big problem.

    We did not experience similar early childhoods - she was bounced around from a few different grade schools, went through my parents' divorce when she was six, and had to deal with a little sister who required an extra amount of care (me). She experienced a lot of instability that I didn't have to experience. I wasn't bounced around, I was only an infant when my parents separated, and I was the one being cared after the most. I think she feels very victimized and that has influenced the person she's become.

    I have a PDF of that book - let me know if you want it and I'll email it to you
    That would be much appreciated (why are we using winky faces?)

    Honestly, I don't know. I've been trying to "deal with things" for eight years, and a few months ago I stopped trying. I realised there's a balance between processing and ruminating. Control is a big thing. The transition came in the journal.

    I don't have nightmares any more, so I guess that's an indication!
    Does anybody know what "dealing with things" really entails? I don't think it's something you can do actively which is extremely frustrating. That's an insightful realization you came to because we try to control the processes that we really cannot control. Only when you let go I think is when your subconscious can deal with it. Maybe.

    That sounds like a great indication. Maybe you were processing things through your dreams? We both had "night" issues: your nightmares and my nightly panic attacks. Interesting?
    Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

  8. #1368
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    Things in general? There are many, to be sure, but I think an open-mindedness to the inevitability of change is key. I think our obsession with security is a big problem.

    We did not experience similar early childhoods - she was bounced around from a few different grade schools, went through my parents' divorce when she was six, and had to deal with a little sister who required an extra amount of care (me). She experienced a lot of instability that I didn't have to experience. I wasn't bounced around, I was only an infant when my parents separated, and I was the one being cared after the most. I think she feels very victimized and that has influenced the person she's become.
    Ouch. Sounds pretty rough for her. Do you feel she resents you, or your closeness to your mum?

    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    That would be much appreciated (why are we using winky faces?)
    Because we are talking about illegal sharing of information!!!

    Just sent it

    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    Does anybody know what "dealing with things" really entails? I don't think it's something you can do actively which is extremely frustrating. That's an insightful realization you came to because we try to control the processes that we really cannot control. Only when you let go I think is when your subconscious can deal with it. Maybe.

    That sounds like a great indication. Maybe you were processing things through your dreams? We both had "night" issues: your nightmares and my nightly panic attacks. Interesting?
    I like our chats

    Interesting idea that 'letting go' might give the subconscious the freedom to process and release. It would tie in with the most primal / physical forms of release that we talked about above (like shaking etc.): if you're not thinking about it / trying to control it, your subconscious processes it and releases it through your body (which is basically your subconscious).

    However, I think the problem is that, unlike animals, humans have that extra aspect of the brain which lends itself to self-reflection. Some people don't "go there" and don't analyse stuff, but they still have that aspect of the brain, and if they refuse to ever self-reflect, in a way they might be repressing it. That also hits the subconscious hard, because anything repressed becomes toxic, and eventually gets reflected back to us in physical reality (our bodies or our lives).

    Then there are other people who dwell and ruminate excessively, and that has the opposite effect: creating a kind of inner stagnation because, as you said, it blocks the subconscious from processing.

    So, I think what's needed to really process, develop, and mature, is an ability to be conscious of what's happening, but not try to control it. Like watching, taking things in, sometimes reflecting back, but not thinking of a course of action necessarily, because there is no behavioural fix: just the ability of the subconscious to process and release.

    Which means that there are things that can be done to "deal with stuff": but they are things like learning compassion for others, building self love, self respect, and awareness. Learning to know yourself, but not ruminating on flaws, or strategies, or trying to change (which is what I spent a lot of time doing).

    The problem with the nightmares was that they were so horrific that I never allowed myself to stay asleep for them. I would always force myself to wake up, meaning that I would never fully process them. It was so weird, but I kept having them (always a variation on two themes) until I was doing my yoga teacher training. There was a man on the course who was a "healer", and one night I was having a nightmare, and in the dream he came to me and put his hands on me and healed me. Until that point I was still having 2 or 3 nightmares a week, and after that, they stopped. Maybe I had let go of control sufficiently that my subconscious was able to heal the issue through a person I recognised as a healer.

    Now I might have one a month. I had one last night, but before that I hadn't had one in about 3 months.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  9. #1369
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Ouch. Sounds pretty rough for her. Do you feel she resents you, or your closeness to your mum?
    I always felt that way when we were younger. I think (or hope) she's gotten over it. This is so bizarre - I just called my mom's house and my sister picked up the phone! I can't think of why she'd even be there. She was super cheerful and asked me about an odd/uncomfortable experience I had yesterday that my mom told her about, showing interest and talking through it with me. Really not like her!

    Because we are talking about illegal sharing of information!!!

    Just sent it
    Ohh I get it

    I like our chats

    Interesting idea that 'letting go' might give the subconscious the freedom to process and release. It would tie in with the most primal / physical forms of release that we talked about above (like shaking etc.): if you're not thinking about it / trying to control it, your subconscious processes it and releases it through your body (which is basically your subconscious).

    However, I think the problem is that, unlike animals, humans have that extra aspect of the brain which lends itself to self-reflection. Some people don't "go there" and don't analyse stuff, but they still have that aspect of the brain, and if they refuse to ever self-reflect, in a way they might be repressing it. That also hits the subconscious hard, because anything repressed becomes toxic, and eventually gets reflected back to us in physical reality (our bodies or our lives).

    Then there are other people who dwell and ruminate excessively, and that has the opposite effect: creating a kind of inner stagnation because, as you said, it blocks the subconscious from processing.

    So, I think what's needed to really process, develop, and mature, is an ability to be conscious of what's happening, but not try to control it. Like watching, taking things in, sometimes reflecting back, but not thinking of a course of action necessarily, because there is no behavioural fix: just the ability of the subconscious to process and release.

    Which means that there are things that can be done to "deal with stuff": but they are things like learning compassion for others, building self love, self respect, and awareness. Learning to know yourself, but not ruminating on flaws, or strategies, or trying to change (which is what I spent a lot of time doing).
    It's a bit damned if you do, damned if you don't. There's a balance to be struck - as you mentioned - between being aware but not being too involved. Both extremes have their attraction: ignoring requires seemingly zero effort and obsession.... well, obsession can become addicting. But actively seeking the middle requires effort and acceptance. Who wants to do that?!

    Re: "compassion for others, building self love, self respect, and awareness. Learning to know yourself, but not ruminating on flaws, or strategies, or trying to change" this is good advice for people on either extreme. For the denier, this leads to a self awareness that they may not have had. For the ruminater, this takes focus off of themselves as some sort of closed environment and opens them up to experiencing themselves through a wider scope.

    The problem with the nightmares was that they were so horrific that I never allowed myself to stay asleep for them. I would always force myself to wake up, meaning that I would never fully process them. It was so weird, but I kept having them (always a variation on two themes) until I was doing my yoga teacher training. There was a man on the course who was a "healer", and one night I was having a nightmare, and in the dream he came to me and put his hands on me and healed me. Until that point I was still having 2 or 3 nightmares a week, and after that, they stopped. Maybe I had let go of control sufficiently that my subconscious was able to heal the issue through a person I recognised as a healer.

    Now I might have one a month. I had one last night, but before that I hadn't had one in about 3 months.
    That's very interesting. Do you think you didn't trust yourself or think you were qualified enough to heal yourself? That you could only allow yourself to believe a true "healer?" And why do you think you had one last night?

    Oh, and thanks for bringing up the repressed memories, but I also had "night terrors" when I was 2-3 years old (obviously I just had issues with the night). Apparently I would start screaming bloody murder and bang my head against my bed (well that explains a lot...). My mom would have to carry me around the house for a few minutes until I'd finally "come to" and realize where I was.

    I am seriously in awe that my mom didn't try to abandon me in a dumpster or something.

    I like our chats too.
    Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

  10. #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    I always felt that way when we were younger. I think (or hope) she's gotten over it. This is so bizarre - I just called my mom's house and my sister picked up the phone! I can't think of why she'd even be there. She was super cheerful and asked me about an odd/uncomfortable experience I had yesterday that my mom told her about, showing interest and talking through it with me. Really not like her!
    As you change, your relationships change...

    Quote Originally Posted by ombat View Post
    That's very interesting. Do you think you didn't trust yourself or think you were qualified enough to heal yourself? That you could only allow yourself to believe a true "healer?" And why do you think you had one last night?
    I felt like I needed help. I think I was ready to let go of the trauma, and my subconscious just put the face of someone who I recognised onto the part of me that could heal myself. I think it was relevant that it was someone I only knew vaguely, because it meant there was no emotional attachment to the healing process, which I think now that there shouldn't be.

    I had one last night almost certainly cos' of the disgusting binge drinking session It a common thing to always get nightmares after heavy sessions - detox.

    Night terrors are strange cos' from what i know they're not always the result of bad dreams. Pretty disturbing though! I guess you don't remember if you had dreams before them.

    Have you heard of dream paralysis? That's what used to happen to me...

    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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