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Thread: This is not a lobe song page 110

  1. #1091
    brooke.S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    I second Brooke's question! Although I was on your journal earlier and jeeze louise... Dr. Derp! We'll have to start making appointments if we want our questions answered



    I eat seaweed occasionally, but the thing is I never get the urge for it... usually my body tells me if I need something and then I'll have it. last Autumn I used to eat 200gs of Brazil nuts a day... I did feel pretty good when I was doing that, but then I got "Fear of PUFA". I don't know... I'm a bit skeptical of the iodine-seleum supplementation tbh. Don't know why!

    I've heard dandelion tea is really good. Have you noticed any effect? I was taking milk thistle but wasn't feeling anything so I stopped.
    Derp and Zach need to start a practice. I'm willing to relocate to work there too.

    I used to eat 2-4 Brazil nuts a day. Any more than that and you can get selenium toxicity. How many is 200gs? I take Life Extension Super Selenium Complex. I'm kinda scared of taking iodine from a pill or seaweed because of hashimotos. I might experiment with it soon.

    I took milk thistle years ago.... I didn't really notice much from it. Dandelion root tea also helps with water retention. Looking back, I felt better when I was drinking it. I think it helped me with any T4 issues I was having at the time. T4 can build up in the liver if it's not converted into T3 (as I understand it).

  2. #1092
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post

    It was actually my t4 that was too low. I got it checked twice: the first time it was below the norm (11.6), the second time it was just above (12.4). Norm is 12 - 22. I can't remember my t3 exactly, but it was in the lower 20%.



    I didn't think of that... so basically supplementing with t3 causes the thyroid to slow down?



    I read about those symptoms - they are all oestrogen ones! I think what might happen is that too low a dosage might cause a exasperation of oestrogen dominance, and then people blame it on the drug, as opposed to the dosage. I didn't notice anything last month when I took it, but the supplementation of Vitex is making a big difference this time!
    For healthy people most T3 comes from T4 being converted, mainly in the liver. A good indication that someone has poor T4 to T3 conversion is to look where they FT4 and FT3 are. Good converters have both frees in relatively the same place in their respective ranges. Poor converter have lower T3 than T4.

    Because your T4 was below or barely above the lowest part of it's range and your T3 was at 20% of its range says to me, while you are low in thyroid hormones the small amount of T4 you have seems to convert well.

    Supplementing T3 tends to drive TSH down. When TSH is low the brain is happy and thinks enough thyroid hormone is being produced. This MAY not be the case. The body may be not producing enough hormones but since the brain, via TSH, is happy the thyroid is not getting the signal to increase hormone production.

    Many symptoms of hormonal issues can overlap. You can have hypo symptoms when you are hyperthyroid and you can have high estradiol symptoms when progesterone is high. That is why testing to see where things stand is important.

    I really like this book. It helped me understand things.
    Women, Weight and Hormones: A Weight-Loss Plan for Women Over 35: Elizabeth Lee, M.D. Vliet: 9780871319326: Amazon.com: Books

    Finally, before taking supplemental T3 I hope anyone considering it understands it fully. Too much can be as negative as too little. And while I think thyroid hormones need to be treated under medical supervision starting with 25mcg of cytomel is, IMO, a very bad idea.

    I've been on thyroid hormones for 13+ years. I have never taken 25mcg of cytomel.

  3. #1093
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcadav View Post
    I've been on thyroid hormones for 13+ years. I have never taken 25mcg of cytomel.
    If you don't mind me asking... are you on NDT or a combo of T3 and T4?

    My thyroid situation is totally different from YogaBare's. I'm currently taking 3 and 3/4 grains of nature throid. One grain has 9mcg of T3. So I'm getting 33.75mcg of T3.

  4. #1094
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    Quote Originally Posted by brookesam View Post
    If you don't mind me asking... are you on NDT or a combo of T3 and T4?

    My thyroid situation is totally different from YogaBare's. I'm currently taking 3 and 3/4 grains of nature throid. One grain has 9mcg of T3. So I'm getting 33.75mcg of T3.
    ...yes, but the T3 in dessicated thyroid is also bound to other constituents (like T4, T2, T1, calcitonin, iodine), so your body treats it different, MUCH differently than taking the equivalent in straight T3 (like cyto/cynomel).

    A single does of 12.5mcg of T3 is enough to drive many people hyper (for a few hours anyways), so I wouldn't recommend starting out any higher. And due to the short half-life (of T3), small doses every few hours is in most cases, much more effective..hebs

  5. #1095
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    Quote Originally Posted by brookesam View Post
    If you don't mind me asking... are you on NDT or a combo of T3 and T4?

    My thyroid situation is totally different from YogaBare's. I'm currently taking 3 and 3/4 grains of nature throid. One grain has 9mcg of T3. So I'm getting 33.75mcg of T3.
    I take 137 mcg generic Unithroid (T4) and 15mcg Cytomel (not generic). I like taking separate T4 and T3 because you can increase or decrease one without the other. I have also read/heard that the amount of T3 in combo drugs like Armour can be too much for some people and lead to needing to add additional T4 to it.

    I also take it all at the same time, in the morning at least an hour before food. When I started taking Cytomel I took it multiple times a day and found it to be a pain. After hearing others were taking it all at once and saw/felt no difference I tried it that way. Works for me.I feel best when my frees are above midpoint, closer to 75% of their ranges. I have never experienced any hyPER symptoms.

    When was the last time you had your FT4 and FT3 levels checked? Were you on your present dose? What were your results?

  6. #1096
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    I don't have my recent labs with me right now but my free T3 was 2.8. We are aiming for 3.2 at least. I was on 3.25 grains at the time. I go back in 3 weeks for more labs.

    The last time I had reverse T3 tested my ratio result was 8.5. It's supposed to be above 20. I'm looking to get rid of the reverse T3 with Cynomel and I'm going to start back with adaptogens soon for cortisol. I'm going to talk to my doctor about this when I go back.

  7. #1097
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    My T4 is always a little higher than my T3... Poor conversion

  8. #1098
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    Yeah, so according to Ray Peat, modern diagnostic methods for thyroid disorders suck and that's why there are ludicrous examples of people who were diagnosed as both hyper and hypo. He makes a good point when he says that although in quantum mechanics, a particle can be both a particle and a wave, in biology, things are usually not simultaneously one thing and its opposite.

    There is a negative feedback loop along the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis. So increased T3 and T4 causes the hypothalamus to decrease the release of TRH and the pituitary to decrease the release of TSH. (But reduced TRH levels also reduces the release of TSH since TRH triggers the release of TSH by the pituitary.) The fact that taking T3 activates this negative feedback loop doesn't mean that it downregulates the thyroid. All it does is attenuate the release of TSH.

    I wonder if the TSH receptors in the thyroid are down-regulated when the body is constantly flooded with TSH. So is it possible to develop TSH resistance, the way some people develop insulin resistance? If so, then lowering one's TSH levels is probably a good thing. According to Ray Peat, TSH itself is harmful--can't remember why right now, and can't look it up at the moment cuz have a lot of work to do.

    And I wouldn't start with 25 mcg of Cynomel. I would try to divide the tablet into 12 parts (may be very difficult) and take approximately 2 mcg 3 x a day to start. I read that it's possible to use a nail clipper to cut it into quarters and then take tiny bites out of each quarter. Three bites per quarter. Do that for a week, and if nothing changes, increase it to 4 x a day, and so on.

  9. #1099
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    Thanks for all the input everyone! Does anyone know where T4 comes from so? If T3 is covered from T4, is T4 covered from TSH? Or is T4 made in the thyroid? Basically asking: what would cause low T4?

    Diene, I love that Peat article! Read it a few months ago. Thanks for the refresher. great summation.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  10. #1100
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    Thyroid hormone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia provides a good summary. Basically, T4 is made by the thyroid. TSH just stimulates the thyroid to produce T4. The wikipedia article summarizes the entire pathway. I think anything could go wrong along the pathway that could result in low T4. The most common cause is a compromised thyroid caused by some kind of autoimmune disorder, like Hashimoto's, where the immune system attacks the thyroid and slowly destroys it.

    I'm not sure how estrogen dominance results in hypothyroidism. But I'm sure it's explained somewhere in one of Ray Peat's articles.

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