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  1. #51
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    no, I said that there is no proliferation of women who are content to be the third-night-in-the-rotation woman, as in, know that a man is with a bunch of ladies, and just think "that's cool- it's not like I can't get food stamps if I get knocked up." That is not happening.



    that is no-amory...lol they are single. And tend to stay that way.
    I think you're wrong. Tons of ladies would become groupies if they got the chance. Look at rock stars and pro athletes. Hell, look at what girls have done to Justin Bieber. But just as there's only so many of these true alphas, there's only so many ladies that they can choose, keeping in mind both time and social custom (if it were customary to be a groupie in our society, they would probably be fucking in the middle of the grocery store isles).

    No-amory is polyamory. It's sex without committment. The girl and the guy is free to have multiple partners. The only difference between a one night stand and textbook polyamory is: in polyamory, you have a more intimate relationship and you see them multiple times. So, hooking up is a short term polyamorous relationship as far as I'm concerned.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    No one ever lived in the wild...shamans maybe. People huddled together so close that we didn't have our own beds until the 20th century.

    You don't have to be some independent thinking, critical analysis existential philosopher to stand watch, to fetch berries or water, to put up shelters the way your granny showed you her granny showed her. Human population dynamics include very few people that you would probably call human.
    You can't deny that society nowadays demands more people for support roles, whereas once upon a time, most/all men had to be warriors. And the leader of this pack was the alpha of them, but all of those men were alpha compared to people in society today.

  3. #53
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    no way dude- most people were always support.

    Sure they were probably generally more into machismo and shit, but that's because they were obeying the social systems maintained by the leadership of the shamans and chiefs.

    And how many baby mama's you know?
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  4. #54
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    also pre-historic man was not a "warrior." There are whole continents with no evidence of making war-weapons. Fighting is expensive and risky and trade and diplomacy is easier and cheaper. In the absence of central authorities, if a guy has beef with another one, he is going to be fighting that guy himself. If I tried to get involved, my wife would yell at me and say to mind my business.

    you should read Bury My Heart at Wounded KNee
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    no way dude- most people were always support.

    Sure they were probably generally more into machismo and shit, but that's because they were obeying the social systems maintained by the leadership of the shamans and chiefs.

    And how many baby mama's you know?
    Dude, no way. Tribal warfare was the #1 priority for their lifestyle. That meant men must be ready to fight at any moment, to protect the women, children, and themselves. That's pretty alpha compared to Joe Beerbelly with slippers on getting the newspaper in the morning. Both examples represent the mean average for males in these two societies.

    That was physical power, physical leadership. If you want to get into the mental game, realize that very few can win that one. A hierarchy will always develop in a capitalist system, and the rich will get richer. Thus, the alphas will gain more power leaving less and less for their support. The support, or the sheep, will grow massively large if the food supply supports it, but they will be subservient to the political (mental warfare) alpha boss.

  6. #56
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    Wilton, I think you're making textbook "just so" arguments. I'm not going to deny that we have alpha/beta dynamics but human societies are so complex that you can't draw straight-line conclusions from it.

  7. #57
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Wilton, I think you're making textbook "just so" arguments. I'm not going to deny that we have alpha/beta dynamics but human societies are so complex that you can't draw straight-line conclusions from it.
    My conclusions are not meant to be black and white. I accept deviations from the norm and draw conclusions from the averages.

    I'm not even discussing alpha vs beta. You know there are far more in that paradigm, right? Omega for example. Alpha is just a descriptor of leadership, both mental and physical. Someone must be a leader in a situation, right? Someone must win, someone must lose. That is the black and white backbone of this discussion that I think is acceptable as a straight-line conclusion.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 03-15-2013 at 03:57 PM.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    also pre-historic man was not a "warrior." There are whole continents with no evidence of making war-weapons. Fighting is expensive and risky and trade and diplomacy is easier and cheaper. In the absence of central authorities, if a guy has beef with another one, he is going to be fighting that guy himself. If I tried to get involved, my wife would yell at me and say to mind my business.

    you should read Bury My Heart at Wounded KNee
    I don't believe that at all. There's been war in every society I have ever studied. Some have less frequent war, some more frequent. There are environmental reasons for this. At its core, war (mental or physical) is simply intraspecies competition, the intensity of which is directly in proportional to the need and benefit to compete.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    My conclusions are not meant to be black and white. I accept deviations from the norm and draw conclusions from the averages.
    I'm not sure it's the norm. What you're sketching out isn't entirely wrong but it's not entirely right either. The building isn't the blueprint (probably why Mark entitled his book as such). And we're only theorizing about the blueprint anyhow.

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