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  1. #41
    Mr.Perfidy's Avatar
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    that was in response to your duplicate post, not that other one that snuck in there in the time it took for me to type "uhhh"
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  2. #42
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    I don't think there is a gay/straight dichotomy; I'm saying that men needed to be taught about having sex with women, and it didn't necessarily come naturally, but that they probably did all kindsa gay shit on their hunts as a general recreation.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    One of the debates in anthropology is the role of culture. We can formulate "just so" theories about attractiveness as related to bring down wooly mammoths or shooting out babies, but people are far more complex than that because of the role culture plays in our survival. As a friend of mine used to say "if there was big money in fish-mongering, smelling like tuna would be hot".

    For example, male body hair indicates high testosterone yet it hasn't been considered attractive in many years. How to explain that except for the fact that cultures have a life of their own.

    Another weird example is the "grass eaters" of Japan:

    He is a soshokukei danshi herbivorous boy a term coined two years ago by the commentator Maki Fukasawa to describe the proliferation of men who, in appearance and attitude, bear little resemblance to the two dominant Japanese male groups of the past century: soldiers and their peacetime offspring, corporate warriors.

    The typical herbivore cares, sometimes a little too much, about his appearance, eats sparingly, prefers afternoon tea with female friends to an evening spent drinking and shows little interest in the obsession that consumes so many of his peers: sex.


    Hard to understand this looking through a purely Darwinian lens. But if you open the aperature up a bit to take into account culture some explanations appear. The Grass Eaters are responding to Japan's economic malaise that doesn't offer them much reward. They're also responding to the previous generation of salarymen who worked/smoked/drank themselves into burnout. Environment effects culture which effects the environment, on and on.
    America has similar people to the 'herbivorous boy'. Here's what I think is going on. The size of cities, towns, and school populations. Social media has proliferated. These are both contributing to massively huge social circles for people. This is essentially enlarging the size of your tribe. In a tribe, there's room for only so many leaders. The scientific term for this is alpha. The tribe size has gotten much larger, so people who once could have been alphas in their small pack might have to be a slight step below in this new social circle. Cliffs: just a few more alphas and a whoooole lot more worker bees means that the general population's demographics will show greater subservience in general.

    The above goes for sexuality too. I think feminism's part in the sexual revolution has brought women up to modern times on what choices to make, partner wise. Since the state will basically take care of them if they have kids, they worry much less about the stability of the mate choice. Interestingly, I think this is closer to a primal-like situation in which the entire tribe took care of the kids no matter what. So, women are becoming more and more interested in polyamory (not officially but in practice). Tons of men complain about 'bullshit' feminism, but I see something at the heart of their complaints. Those are the men losing. The men who are leaders of the pack now have gazillions of women looking to mate with them because they've been somewhat freed from monogamy and a patriachy in general.

  4. #44
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    Your assessment does not account for the fact that most people do not have any contact whatsoever with this super-tribe that you are talking about; I live in an area that has a population density comparable to Hong Kong, but it is not rare to not know anyone in your neighborhood. You are still brought up through a small controlled population with internal dynamics (school), then you go to college or work and find new little tribes.

    I have 170 or so Contacts in my phone, but there are 1200 or so people just in my apartment complex. Most people's contacts lists roughly correspond to the size of a primal band.

    lol and yo this "leaders of the pack" mate availability thing is definitely theory and not experience. There is no proliferation of women willing to be some guy's every-third-night or anything, not in my class or neighborhood anyway. I don't know a single man that is in any kind of relationship like that. Teenagers too, are not generally aligned this way.

    And there is still a great stigma connected to relying on the State to provide for your children- in the middle and working and upper classes, women still seek a man that will feed and comfort them with luxuries and raise their children. In fact the scarcity dilemma makes this more pronounced and more dramatic, in my experience. I am calling it that by 2020, middle-class arranged marriages will be normal.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  5. #45
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    America has similar people to the 'herbivorous boy'. Here's what I think is going on. The size of cities, towns, and school populations. Social media has proliferated. These are both contributing to massively huge social circles for people. This is essentially enlarging the size of your tribe. In a tribe, there's room for only so many leaders. The scientific term for this is alpha. The tribe size has gotten much larger, so people who once could have been alphas in their small pack might have to be a slight step below in this new social circle. Cliffs: just a few more alphas and a whoooole lot more worker bees means that the general population's demographics will show greater subservience in general.
    My high school had 2000 people, 400 or so in my graduating class. Is that big?

    It wasn't weird to not know people in your class. Because 400 is too big to manage according to our genetic dispositions and social processing capacity, everyone just broke off into smaller splinter tribal groups- you could identify them by their tribal-affiliation fashions. There were 40 or so "wiggers" (and a few token black kids- this was before They deconstructed and relocated the projects throughout suburbia), 40 or so "skaters", 40 or so "hippies," 40 or so "Honors kids/straights," 40 or so "jocks" and cheerleaders, etc. Multiplicities of tribes in venn diagrams. Each had their own internal leadership and followers and status standards, conflicts, and drama. You could then divide that into "the cool kids" and "the rest of us," where the cool kids were the respective internal hierarchs of the various tribes- even the Honors Kids made a few cool kids that socialized with the other tribal leadership.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    And that, ladies and gentlemen is just one reason I like men in their sixties. (Experience, humor.)

    On a different note, unless Playboy has changed a lot, I don't remember those women looking like fashion models. The Playboy models were curvy whereas the fashion model is built in a way that showcases clothing. Maybe men are attracted to women they sense they have a shot at. It's the rare Woody Allen type that has the confidence to go after the "prettiest" woman in the room.
    Modern playboy and many other originators of modern pornography focus on fetishized women's bodies.

    If you look at some of the artworks of Tom of Finland (which highly influences homosexual art/culture/pornography circles), you see a clear fetishization of the male body in the images. Penises are oversized, for example.

    Similarly, drawn women in pornographic imagery tend to have over-large breasts and extremely small waists.

    With the advent of both the ability to photoshop and do plastic surgery, women with these more fetishized proportions have come to the fore as the standard of pornographic beauty.

    That being said, there is also a movement away from this (i don't know if Playboy is doing it, though) -- and a response via groups like the Suicide Girls and the like.

    So, in all reality, many media images of women all around are simply not good indicators of beauty, attractiveness, or health. But, we all do fetishize each other. And, what we fetishize varies person to person.

    What we fetishize culturally is largely dictated by who controls what media at what time.

  7. #47
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    lol yeah the chemical companies won't sell no fake hair shit if that wasn't "hot."

    It always offends women deeply when I tell them my honest opinion about their fake hair. I've considered banging a dude with nice lady hair* LOL Half a mile away, you can see nice hair and your scrotum responds and your internal navigation systems find a reason to head that way. Somehow girls don't understand or appreciate this.


    *I thought it was a woman in the crowd. I gave up after I tapped on her/his shoulder and he turned and reveal his man'ness.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    Your assessment does not account for the fact that most people do not have any contact whatsoever with this super-tribe that you are talking about; I live in an area that has a population density comparable to Hong Kong, but it is not rare to not know anyone in your neighborhood. You are still brought up through a small controlled population with internal dynamics (school), then you go to college or work and find new little tribes.

    I have 170 or so Contacts in my phone, but there are 1200 or so people just in my apartment complex. Most people's contacts lists roughly correspond to the size of a primal band.

    lol and yo this "leaders of the pack" mate availability thing is definitely theory and not experience. There is no proliferation of women willing to be some guy's every-third-night or anything, not in my class or neighborhood anyway. I don't know a single man that is in any kind of relationship like that. Teenagers too, are not generally aligned this way.

    And there is still a great stigma connected to relying on the State to provide for your children- in the middle and working and upper classes, women still seek a man that will feed and comfort them with luxuries and raise their children. In fact the scarcity dilemma makes this more pronounced and more dramatic, in my experience. I am calling it that by 2020, middle-class arranged marriages will be normal.
    I beg to differ on the role part. The vast majority of people are sheep because they live in such close spaces, and there's only so much room for sheepdogs. In the wild, you more naturally learn to be a sheepdog.

    As for the leader of the pack getting new women every third night, I've seen it. It certainly happens. But you not knowing it yet still seeing effects of polyamory (single women with babies) only further highlights my point: they are not all that common. Women can find them in particular places like bars or other places a man might assert his dominance (like an office or a sports field), but these men also have the option to find women as they go about their tasks.

  9. #49
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    As for the leader of the pack getting new women every third night, I've seen it.
    no, I said that there is no proliferation of women who are content to be the third-night-in-the-rotation woman, as in, know that a man is with a bunch of ladies, and just think "that's cool- it's not like I can't get food stamps if I get knocked up." That is not happening.

    But you not knowing it yet still seeing effects of polyamory (single women with babies) only further highlights my point:
    that is no-amory...lol they are single. And tend to stay that way.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  10. #50
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    I beg to differ on the role part. The vast majority of people are sheep because they live in such close spaces, and there's only so much room for sheepdogs. In the wild, you more naturally learn to be a sheepdog.
    No one ever lived in the wild...shamans maybe. People huddled together so close that we didn't have our own beds until the 20th century.

    You don't have to be some independent thinking, critical analysis existential philosopher to stand watch, to fetch berries or water, to put up shelters the way your granny showed you her granny showed her. Human population dynamics include very few people that you would probably call human.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

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