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Thread: Primal attractiveness page 11

  1. #101
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cierra View Post
    Wait, I thought this thread was supposed to be about how modern culture has changed our ideas of what is attractive versus what it would have naturally been, in the Paleolithic era/way back when.... not a discussion about feminism, female capacity, or anything of the like... I am honestly confused. Are all of you saying that now that women are becoming more culturally and socially equivalent to males in our society, they are becoming less attractive? More attractive?

    And for the record, I disagree with the statement earlier about people being able to freely choose their role in society. There are some circumstances when you are destined -- by family, financial situations, or environmental surroundings -- to just be stuffed into the role of an alpha, or even stuffed into the role of a beta, or omega, what have you.

    As far as the original topic goes, I believe in what someone said a bit earlier in the thread: the most difficult status to achieve is always going to be the most attractive. Right now, with the obesity "epidemic" going on, the majority of the population strive to be unnaturally thin, with muscles that cut like knives. However, decades back, whenever the majority of the population had to work day in and day out to sustain themselves, a soft, pale body was ideal.
    I don't know if anyone has ever seen the movie "Phat Girlz" (yep, with Mo'nique, a super cheesy chick flick) but it was about this group of girls who were large, obese even. They struggled to maintain a poor body shape, at best, while their stick thin, physically fit cousin got any dude she wanted. But one day, they went on a cruise, and met these doctors from another culture, who were very much interested in a woman with curves. They traveled to this place (somewhere in Africa?) and they were idolized by all of the most prestigious men in the city, while the stick thin girl was treated much like a servant, and often ridiculed for her "boyish" body. It just goes to show you, that even in modern times, people seek what their specific culture is taught to think what the most beautiful and desirable woman/person is. Or.... maybe I'm just rambling. :P
    Social equivalence does not make women less attractive to me. That's part of what I said about accepting feminism as good.

    I don't get what you mean about people being free to choose their role in society. Who said that? In any case, humans have a capability to do whatever they want as sentient beings. Whether they choose to overcome all obstacles on that path or not is another discussion.

    I think you're off base that the most difficult status to achieve is the most attractive. You're looking at a pure correlation, not a causation. As I said earlier, the vast majority of women are attractive to me. I am generally not choosing to be with a female or not depending upon their looks. The personality ends up being the deciding factor. Females have many suitors available. They are mainly weaving through them for power (alpha status) as the attractive force. Girls may like sweet guys, but that's not attraction. That's just friendship.

    I agree that people are easily swayed by culture though. This can totally override any natural instinct. The above paragraph is more concerned with what the natural instincts are.

  2. #102
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    Beauty is only skin deep. But ugly goes clear to the bone.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    You should read Nietzsche sometime. His ideas are naturally going to be heretical to a bunch of Marxists.



    Personal insults? Sorry that you feel offended by the truth. Go ahead and be an ostrich. Put your head in the sand...
    Nope! I'll just be a moose instead!
    I have read Nietzsche. I don't, however, understand why he's relevant to what we're even talking about.

    And I agree, this discussion have gone way out of hand. Personally I agree with the idea that the most difficult body type will be the most attractive one. It suggests a different upbringing from the masses - if workers are hardy and stringy, a noble would have a comparably soft body. In medieval Europe, obesity and paleness was trendy because this was something a working class person could never achieve, while nobles could strive toward this ideal. If you look at old paintings of high-ranking people you'll notice an absence of scars, marring and grit, which was 'reserved' for the commoners and the working class. Today the 'gritty' look is becoming popular among movie characters and pop stars and whatever have you, for many reasons beside this one.

  4. #104
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    The basic difference that makes men different from men is their role in human social structure and how they rise to power within it.
    Men rise for different reasons that women rise. If a woman rises using the same strategy that a man does, that to me is male behavior. It's mostly just not witnessed in females. That is my empirical definition, not a definition of genetic potential.
    I think it is more about culture then genetics, and probably always has been. Completely depends on the culture regarding what is valued.
    I do see where women with valued looks can rise quickly in a society....but they fall mighty fast when the looks fade. To keep power, they need to back it up with other attributes.

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  5. #105
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    Just one mans perspective- the woman 99% of the time picks the mate and why she makes that choice is a mystery to all men.
    Raise grass fed bison all natural. trying to gage this comunity to see if their is any intrest?

  6. #106
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    Re the OP- human beings are hardwired for men to desire women with an hourglass figure (a little padding on the bottom is good for baby bearing) and women to desire men with the classic V shape. So I think what we naturally find attractive now is what they would have found attractive then...because it's been proven that the body shape we are naturally attracted to (as a general rule- I'm not going to address homosexuality or BBW, etc) was the body shape that was most fertile for baby making.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleRiverDee View Post
    Re the OP- human beings are hardwired for men to desire women with an hourglass figure (a little padding on the bottom is good for baby bearing) and women to desire men with the classic V shape. So I think what we naturally find attractive now is what they would have found attractive then...because it's been proven that the body shape we are naturally attracted to (as a general rule- I'm not going to address homosexuality or BBW, etc) was the body shape that was most fertile for baby making.
    But if you go back a hundred years or so in western history, the hour-glass shape was NOT the most desired shape in women. The pear-shape was.

    I don't think it ever boiled down to a body type that was specifically attractive for the human race as a whole. This is probably something that is at least partially influenced by ideals of other people. If a lot of people start wearing converse for example, even more people will catch up on it. If a lot of skinny chicks end up portrayed as the ultimate body type, people are going to start thinking that skinny chicks is the hottest thing there is. There are aways trends, and I just wish I didn't just compare the human body with clothes... but there is probably some sort of connection.

  8. #108
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    Wilton really? Women are not more emotional, it is simply more acceptable for women to express their emotions in our society. My ex was far more emotional than I am and my fiancee and I are equally adept at controling and appropriately expressing emotion. Ie not crying yelling etc.

    Almost 40% of women make more than their husbands. Women traditionally didn't have as much success in the career world because society gave them the job of taking care of the family/kids. Now with the options of not having children or outsourcing the care women are becoming as successful as men. I work in the male dominated feild of investments and I am a top performer. I am in my twenties and make six figures. I have always excelled at math and sience and been very competitive. I think you have a very antiquated few kof women and society in general.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by foodiegoneprimal View Post
    Wilton really? Women are not more emotional, it is simply more acceptable for women to express their emotions in our society. My ex was far more emotional than I am and my fiancee and I are equally adept at controling and appropriately expressing emotion. Ie not crying yelling etc.

    Almost 40% of women make more than their husbands. Women traditionally didn't have as much success in the career world because society gave them the job of taking care of the family/kids. Now with the options of not having children or outsourcing the care women are becoming as successful as men. I work in the male dominated feild of investments and I am a top performer. I am in my twenties and make six figures. I have always excelled at math and sience and been very competitive. I think you have a very antiquated few kof women and society in general.
    No, I think the modern, politcally correct view that all sexes (among other things such as races) are equal is a bunch of daisies. Cute but zero strength behind it. I believe in human achievement, progression, evolution, growth from point A to point B, the Ubermensch, the over-man... People that believe all things are equal are applying Marxist thought that squashes all growth in its path.

    I'm of the belief that there should be equal rights of course. That is a bit modern, you might say, but it's really in the spirit of the constitution. There's a difference between equal rights and equal abilities or attributes. The government should not be there to guide humans in all that they do, again as the Marxism camp tends to desire. The government is to prevent anarchy by ensuring the protection of certain liberties against enemies foreign and domestic. I'm getting way off track now.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 03-18-2013 at 03:55 PM.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    I'm getting way off track now.
    "Getting"?

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