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Thread: Obesity Paradox - cuddly may be healthier page 2

  1. #11
    AMonkey's Avatar
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    Why is it whenever observational studies are done which conclude that meat is associated with cancer risk; everyones response on here boils down to "lol science!" "grok ate meat for millions of years so that means I should too!" etc
    But when other observational studies are posted, people are happy to use it as evidence for their own theories on health on fitness?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMonkey View Post
    Why is it whenever observational studies are done which conclude that meat is associated with cancer risk; everyones response on here boils down to "lol science!" "grok ate meat for millions of years so that means I should too!" etc
    But when other observational studies are posted, people are happy to use it as evidence for their own theories on health on fitness?
    Shhh

  3. #13
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    BMI is crap.

    Aside form that I think we all know that single digit body fat isn't a necessity to good health. Higher BMI is only gonna be protective if you are sufficiently strong.

  4. #14
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    I don't know that this one does support Primal. A lot of people here want to lose weight and/or get below a specific body fat level.

    I was even making the point that this correlation may be a false one. That finding that overweight people are at lower risk for death than normal weight people with the same chronic diseases is caused by factors other than just weight.
    Others are also saying that this may support the idea that BMI is a lousy indicator of health.

    And overall, Primal doesn't really say anything about what the 'ideal' bodyweight range is.

  5. #15
    Rojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s-piper View Post
    I was even making the point that this correlation may be a false one. That finding that overweight people are at lower risk for death than normal weight people with the same chronic diseases is caused by factors other than just weight.
    Others are also saying that this may support the idea that BMI is a lousy indicator of health.
    That's my take. It may turn out that overweight isn't healthier once we suss out cofounders. But that would still mean that BMI isn't all that useful.

    I'm at about 30 right now, putting me right at the overweight/moderately obsese. I'd like to loose some more, for asthetic and atheletic reasons but to get to ideal BMI, I'd have to get to lose over 40lbs. I dont' want to lose 40lbs. I'd be a scarecrow.

  6. #16
    Omni's Avatar
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    I did read the articles and others,
    and it's not just about higher BMI, but it does show clearly how BMI in the wrong hands can be a dangerous tool, whether it being the health obsessed individual or the well meaning doctor.

    The pinch test is probably far more effective in determining if weight loss is required.

    The main point I drew from it was that a higher lean body mass irrespective of a little flab still hanging on was the healthiest approach, so if you can run, bike, walk, lift, carry, feel healthy, then that was more important than looking like you can do all that stuff when you take your shirt off and flex those abs.

    Aside from the potential benefit of greater reserve in chronic disease treatment, by having extra lean body mass and higher fat levels, I think there is also the negattive aspects required for some individuals in eliminating those last few pounds, the detrimental aspects of this behaviour are underestimated IMO.

    Some individuals hit early plateaus and get frustrated as they are significantly overweight still, I can't say whether they should or shouldn't take more severe actions, my leaning is though to not and simply focus on maintaining a healthy diet and plenty of exercise.
    There are also some studies indicating that even obese individuals that are fit, have a minimal increase in mortality risk, it's just sometimes hard to get and stay fit when obese so it doesn't happen too much, but the take home message is it's not the obesity that is the problem, it is the lack of fitness that increases mortality risk.

    For those individuals that just naturally fall down to the last 10-20lb that they want to drop, then IMO, put the mirror and scales away and focus on living, good food, exercise, fun etc.
    Every moment you spend on stressing over how to move this last bit and fighting your body is a moment in life you have lost and also created negative responses in your body, i think your body is smarter than you are and I'm pretty sure I know who will win.
    Evidence indicates you can get down to your artificially chosen ideal and maintain it, but the imense effort involved may not make it worthwhile and as soon as you let go your body immediately goes back to it's chosen place, just like gravity, so why stress over it, relax, enjoy your body and use that free time to live your life.

  7. #17
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    "In research conducted to answer that question, Dr. Carnethon discovered something even more puzzling: Diabetes patients of normal weight are twice as likely to die as those who are overweight or obese. That finding makes diabetes the latest example of a medical phenomenon that mystifies scientists. They call it the obesity paradox."

    Absurd, there is no paradox, these people really have no clue.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by yodiewan View Post
    Chris Kresser did a good write-up on this recently:
    Do fat people live longer?
    Can somebody translate this paragraph into plain English?

    A comprehensive analysis of NHANES data found that for men, an overall BMI of 27 was associated with the lowest risk of mortality, but that both fat mass and fat free mass were more directly correlated to mortality. (4) When body composition was controlled for, the data demonstrated the lowest risk for men at a BMI between 19.5 and 20.5, suggesting that mortality risk is more related to leanness than it is to BMI.
    I used a freebie online BMI calculator (height, weight) and it gave me 158 as the BMI 20 number and 208 as the BMI 27 number. That's one hell of a difference. I can say with confidence that the only way my frame is getting to 158 is via serious illness - I'm just not built that way - at my physical peak I was 206 and strong as a freakin' bull with massive endurance.
    Last edited by DeeDub; 03-13-2013 at 09:03 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by s-piper View Post
    And overall, Primal doesn't really say anything about what the 'ideal' bodyweight range is.
    Oh, I don't know about that, Mark's pictures of himself send a pretty damn clear message...

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    And when the zombies come, people with a slightly higher bmi will have more time to find food sources. 10% body fat will soon be gone. 50%+ body fat won't be able to escape. So the lightly plump will survive.
    Almost spit my coffee out on this one. You channeled my thoughts to the T!
    The process is simple: Free your mind, and your ass will follow.

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