Page 66 of 67 FirstFirst ... 165664656667 LastLast
Results 651 to 660 of 668

Thread: It sucks being healthy!!! page 66

  1. #651
    Mr.Perfidy's Avatar
    Mr.Perfidy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    1,524
    Primal Fuel
    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    No, why would it?
    because government is just a monopoly (which you said you were against) on violence, so, what you are literally saying is "Of course some people have a right to murder other people and make them work and appropriate their wealth."

    Maybe the problem is that you imagine that you can be a part of the winning team? lol Good luck with that man.

    No, it's like saying the entire planet should work together.
    that is truer, more likely, and more incentivized on a stateless planet, where ecological niches would produce their respective unique consumer items and then trade them for other things with other consumers around the world.

    And you also have no ground to stand on to make this claim, because you already said, in a smug and dismissive tone regarding institutional genocidal starvation of populations organized and carried out by corporations and governments that governments concern themselves with their membership, at the expense of outsiders.

    So how can the world work together when it is officially divided into human cattle and handlers to exploit them?

    Ok, then we don't get modern civilization. We get primitive agrarian civilization or tribal living.
    You are talking to a serf; we live in post-modern primitive agrarian conditions round here.

    Which is to say, if you miss work for a week* you cannot afford to pay the gentry, and the Lord posts a note on your (his) door, threatening that the Sheriff will be by momentarily with his weaponized cavalry to eject you.

    *on machines owned by overlords for their profit in exchange for juuuuuuuuuuuust enough resources to pay the Land-owners, and the Oil and Foodstuffs lords
    Last edited by Mr.Perfidy; 09-17-2013 at 01:03 PM.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  2. #652
    Mr.Perfidy's Avatar
    Mr.Perfidy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    1,524
    This is a stupid conversation because you are not thinking about real people, but are using terms that refer to them; you are just casually writing off horrible and repulsive violence that is literally disgusting to human senses to ever even behold, the experience of which literally shatters the psyche of most people for the rest of their alcoholic and depressed lives. You are straight up calling that "collateral damage" and reducing it to some conceputal equation variable, and utterly ignoring the actual human element, in favor of a totally delusional and abstract "end" that justifies "means." In fact all means are the ends, because there is only the actual human sensations attached to this or that action; everything else is ruling class propaganda designed to engender your compliance with their agenda.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  3. #653
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
    wiltondeportes Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    because government is just a monopoly (which you said you were against) on violence, so, what you are literally saying is "Of course some people have a right to murder other people and make them work and appropriate their wealth."

    Maybe the problem is that you imagine that you can be a part of the winning team? lol Good luck with that man.
    You don't need a right to do these things. These things will happen whether government exists or not. Government will make these actions more for greater good and less for personal gain.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    that is truer, more likely, and more incentivized on a stateless planet, where ecological niches would produce their respective unique consumer items and then trade them for other things with other consumers around the world.

    And you also have no ground to stand on to make this claim, because you already said, in a smug and dismissive tone regarding institutional genocidal starvation of populations organized and carried out by corporations and governments that governments concern themselves with their membership, at the expense of outsiders.

    So how can the world work together when it is officially divided into human cattle and handlers to exploit them?
    No, a stateless planet will promote more destructive competition and lower the quality of living. A stateless planet is a disconnected one, not an interconnected one that you imagine.

    There is no such thing as institutional genocidal starvation organized and carried out by corporations or governments.

    The world will work together more when it it more interconnected. It is you who fears interconnectiveness and labels it human cattle driving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    You are talking to a serf; we live in post-modern primitive agrarian conditions round here.

    Which is to say, if you miss work for a week* you cannot afford to pay the gentry, and the Lord posts a note on your (his) door, threatening that the Sheriff will be by momentarily with his weaponized cavalry to eject you.

    *on machines owned by overlords for their profit in exchange for juuuuuuuuuuuust enough resources to pay the Land-owners, and the Oil and Foodstuffs lords
    And what happens if you miss a week of food gathering in the wild? You are in serious survival mode as your body burns any energy it can find, in your fat, muscle, bone, and other organ cells.

    Perhaps you have a kind tribe who is living with you who can support you during a sick week, but that pales in comparison to modern civilization with the easily accumulate-able surplus (save 100 bucks for a rainy week, and you have food), friends, family, and government welfare/unemployment/etc programs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    This is a stupid conversation because you are not thinking about real people, but are using terms that refer to them; you are just casually writing off horrible and repulsive violence that is literally disgusting to human senses to ever even behold, the experience of which literally shatters the psyche of most people for the rest of their alcoholic and depressed lives. You are straight up calling that "collateral damage" and reducing it to some conceputal equation variable, and utterly ignoring the actual human element, in favor of a totally delusional and abstract "end" that justifies "means." In fact all means are the ends, because there is only the actual human sensations attached to this or that action; everything else is ruling class propaganda designed to engender your compliance with their agenda.
    No, I'm thinking about it logically. You fear logic with regard to humans and prefer to think emotionally. You also feel extremely important because of a fantasy that you represent everyone, and you always point the finger at others for problems in your life and others that you supposedly represent.

    I'm just one of 300,000,000 in America and one of 7,000,000,000 in the world. If I have a problem in my life, it is my fault. It is not reason for a change in the lives of 6,999,999,999 others. I actually do think that I will be important some day, but that's pure belief at this point because I haven't proven anything yet.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 09-17-2013 at 06:03 PM.

  4. #654
    sakura_girl's Avatar
    sakura_girl is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,624
    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    I thought this before, and I have checked many times to make sure we're not. I don't think we are.
    I think you are disagreeing on the definition of assumptions. Derp doesn't even think that the current market is efficient. I, however, can see both efficiency and inefficiency depending on your definitions.

  5. #655
    ssn679doc's Avatar
    ssn679doc is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,594
    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Other competitors are half of the game. The other half is the exponential growth of wealth. The rule of thumb is that rich people have an easier time getting richer.

    Imagine this scenario. Take a business that's number 1 in the market for its product. While matching or exceeding its competitors product, It lowers its prices below competitors' prices once it has enough capital and cash flow to afford to do so. This brings it even more business. Eventually, the cycle can continue until the #1 company has a virtual monopoly on the system.

    But even within the field of competitors, things are not so clear-cut. Competitors can be bought out. Markets can be saturated, making it very difficult for new competitors to come onto the scene.

    Conclusion: A free market certainly does not prevent monopolies. There is only one way to prevent monopoly: have an elected, public government which regulates them. Not a perfect system by any means, but it's better than the alternatives.
    How does a saturated market support a monopoly? Saturated market= lowered demand=decreased production (i.e. loss of business)=loss of monopoly. Besides, if a company is charging less than it's competitors for its goods and services, that is a bad thing? Lower prices=higher standard of living. Horrible thing that.... In your example, the monopoly would have to keep it's prices below the market to keep out competition, which keeps prices low for the consumer... that's a bad thing?

    Government regulations are what cause monopolies in the first place.

  6. #656
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
    wiltondeportes Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sakura_girl View Post
    I think you are disagreeing on the definition of assumptions. Derp doesn't even think that the current market is efficient. I, however, can see both efficiency and inefficiency depending on your definitions.
    I've tried to use as few definitions as possible. In my mind, the market isn't efficient or inefficient. It just produces what it does, and the question is if it can be improved, and if so how and how much.

  7. #657
    Mr.Perfidy's Avatar
    Mr.Perfidy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    1,524
    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    You don't need a right to do these things. These things will happen whether government exists or not. Government will make these actions more for greater good and less for personal gain.
    so telling children, "these people have this right that you do not" has no impact on their development, is your argument? No one's perspective is changed by that?

    No, a stateless planet will promote more destructive competition and lower the quality of living. A stateless planet is a disconnected one, not an interconnected one that you imagine.
    but there would be trade...War is too expensive if the people fighting are bearing the cost- that's why governments wage it, with money they borrow from government financiers, with tax collection as revenue (what about that isnt disturbing to you?)

    It's cheaper to trade than to wage war.

    There is no such thing as institutional genocidal starvation organized and carried out by corporations or governments.
    ludicrous...have you never heard of the 20th century?

    The world will work together more when it it more interconnected. It is you who fears interconnectiveness and labels it human cattle driving.
    commerce and voluntary exchange connect people- sharing a ruler that opresses you all collectively divides people into who can best win his favor and who is on the outs.

    And what happens if you miss a week of food gathering in the wild? You are in serious survival mode as your body burns any energy it can find, in your fat, muscle, bone, and other organ cells.
    no one ever was unemployed in the wild...We aren't talking about The Wild anyway because all technology comes from people, and takes off when it becomes a consumer item that people trade voluntarily for mutual profit. There would be technology.

    Perhaps you have a kind tribe who is living with you who can support you during a sick week, but that pales in comparison to modern civilization with the easily accumulate-able surplus (save 100 bucks for a rainy week, and you have food), friends, family, and government welfare/unemployment/etc programs.
    you are a noob to the world of welfare and to saving money. Just like how you are brushing away the idea of wholesale murdering of children as "collateral damage," you are just arrogantly dismissing economic deprivations and bureaucratic neglect and incompetence and mean-spiritedness.

    No, I'm thinking about it logically. You fear logic with regard to humans and prefer to think emotionally.
    I think logically about emotional beings, maybe is fairer to say. Which is to say, I logically value feeling over arbitrary classifications of contentment according to SIM City Borg calculation indicators.

    You also feel extremely important because of a fantasy that you represent everyone, and you always point the finger at others for problems in your life and others that you supposedly represent.
    I do not employ coercion in my life, so, if there is a problem that is a consequence of coercion (all of them), I know that it is not my doing. I opt out of everything that I can that is touched by that grimy shit.



    Don't you not even have a girlfriend?

    Once you have taken care of that, and are secure in your position as her protector and mate, check back in with us after she is harassed by agents of the State, and you are powerless to have done anything about it, and no one cares about your grievances, and her only choice is to re-enter the world entirely at their mercy. Maybe it will be a less academic, conceptual, textbook argument, and actually come from your experience and your by-then profoundly disturbed existential biochemistry.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  8. #658
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
    wiltondeportes Guest
    No more complaining... What's your solution, Mr. Perfidy? Dissolve all government? I think you better reconsider. There are things I would change with government, but I would not eliminate it.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 09-19-2013 at 12:41 AM.

  9. #659
    Mr.Perfidy's Avatar
    Mr.Perfidy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    1,524
    I would like to see a Prosecution Party sweep the Senate and Congressional elections, hold trials that stream online for the world and are broadcast on television wherein existing members of the same institutions, and within the executive branch, and from the corporate oligarchy and lobbying firms, are tried for treasons and theft and corruption and conspiracy and hanged by the neck until dead, at which point free local elections create municipal scale councils backed by their local police armies to reappropriate any wealth owned by such men and their corporations in a given territory.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  10. #660
    Derpamix's Avatar
    Derpamix is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California
    Posts
    5,390
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    I would like to see a Prosecution Party sweep the Senate and Congressional elections, hold trials that stream online for the world and are broadcast on television wherein existing members of the same institutions, and within the executive branch, and from the corporate oligarchy and lobbying firms, are tried for treasons and theft and corruption and conspiracy and hanged by the neck until dead, at which point free local elections create municipal scale councils backed by their local police armies to reappropriate any wealth owned by such men and their corporations in a given territory.
    +1

    All heil Perfidy
    Longing is the agony of the nearness of the distant

Page 66 of 67 FirstFirst ... 165664656667 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •