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  1. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    I know nobody is stopping me from doing whatever I want to. And I do whatever I want to. I just used to believe that others were 'trapped by the system', that that was the reason they all acted and behaved the same. I thought they were brainwashed and could be woken up. I was obsessed with my little Matrix-delusion from around the age of six. After years upon years of trying, I realized that, actually, they are that way because they're incapable of better. They can't 'wake up'. They need authority, control, restrictions. When you remove them, they break down. They aren't like me because they aren't wired that way.
    So now I can just enjoy my life and not stress about the general populace. I expect no better of them. Having no expectations of people and accepting no authority removes a tonne of stress.
    People are never ready for insurrection until it happens. Numerous cases in history have documented this. The steps of insurrection are always there. People feel all they can do is make tiny compromises right now. This is the narrative power promotes. As it is, I believe no one trusts the government anymore. Libertarianism is on the rise, and I believe minarchism is the first step towards total anarchy.

    When people see the causal link between "virtuous" violence and "heinous" violence, we'll be there to show them true virtue, and point out true heinousness. Those with the greatest passion are trying to get everyone riled up.
    Last edited by Derpamix; 09-13-2013 at 02:36 AM.
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  2. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    Just a reminder: Anarchy doesn't mean no rules, it means no rulers.
    People don't realize that groups aren't a problem in anarchy. The governments themselves, that are lumped into these groups, that statists feel are human nature, would be fought off by the building of organizations that comply in accordance with anarchist principles: consensus, decentralization, and federalism.
    nihil

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    People don't realize that groups aren't a problem in anarchy. The governments themselves, that are lumped into these groups, that statists feel are human nature, would be fought off by the building of organizations that comply in accordance with anarchist principles: consensus, decentralization, and federalism.
    Without fiat currency, even building up a large business would be far more difficult much less a world-dominated market. The Fed is at the root of all that is wrong. Without it the biggest gang of them all (the state) would not have the power that it does and this is why they prop each other up. The black market is one of the biggest economies in the world; billions participate in it and very few monopolies exist, and the ones that do are usually assisted by the state in one way or another. Drug and guns laws are beneficial to cartels; free markets are not.
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  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    Without fiat currency, even building up a large business would be far more difficult much less a world-dominated market. The Fed is at the root of all that is wrong. Without it the biggest gang of them all (the state) would not have the power that it does and this is why they prop each other up. The black market is one of the biggest economies in the world; billions participate in it and very few monopolies exist, and the ones that do are usually assisted by the state in one way or another. Drug and guns laws are beneficial to cartels; free markets are not.
    Agreed. False God's always burn the fastest.

    State policies empower large corporations, it's always been that case. Example: Monsanto protection clause. This is why I laughed so hard I choked to death and died at wilton's ignorance when he mentioned government and state are necessary for protection of the 99% from the 1%

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around some of his "logic".
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  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    Just a reminder: Anarchy doesn't mean no rules, it means no rulers.
    Rules with no rulers is an oxymoron. Who decides on the rules, and who enforces the rules? Rules without enforcement are not rules. If no one has power to set the rules, then quite obviously no rules could ever exist (but I don't think you're dense enough to miss that).

    If you're describing a government without any representation (a ruler, a group of rulers, or groups of groups of rules like the USA), then you're just describing direct democracy. This is not anarchy.

    Frankly to be really technical, anarchy has never even existed since people began to develop tribes. Tribes have rules, and someone decides upon them. It could be a chief or a consensus. Either way, not anarchy.

    Actually, I will concede that anarchy has existed. These are the periods of time between states having power in certain areas. For instance, look back on the Yugoslav War of 1991 to 1999. There were periods of complete chaos in some of the cities of that region. The state had fallen, and people were terrified and doing whatever necessary to survive. These were not good times. I do not think they would be on this forum promoting anarchy. They've seen first-hand the value of some sort of government. That's why this whole movement is liberal charlatanry and remarkably silly.

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Rules with no rulers is an oxymoron. Who decides on the rules, and who enforces the rules? Rules without enforcement are not rules. If no one has power to set the rules, then quite obviously no rules could ever exist (but I don't think you're dense enough to miss that).
    In a voluntary society, everything is optional. If you opt in to something, e.g., a civilized community, you will most likely have to abide by the rules of the non-aggression principle which is just basic goodwill toward fellow human beings or you will be treated as an aggressor and dealt with as such if you should commit an offensive act in that community (violation of property rights which start with the individual being one's most valuable property). Think: Craig's List; SMS verification, regulated by users and reputation. There could still be contracts and arbitrators and insurance companies and reputation systems and credit reports, or you can choose to forego all of that and not participate in civilization as well as most others would. The key here is voluntary. Right now you cannot escape unoptional laws, like having a social security number, compulsory schooling, and so on and so forth unless you are in the very small minority that have religious protection, but again, everyone should have individual protection. We live in a fascist society that depends on protectionism and favoritism for the select few. It is unfair. To make a truly fair society, absolutely everything must be optional. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for dinner. There is nothing fair about it. But in a voluntary society, you could join groups that implement such an unfair voting system, but you could also opt-out of it anytime you want, unlike the group we are all forced into at birth. What we have now is a monopoly on violence and currency; in a free and voluntary society, there would be competing forms of absolutely everything. Don't like a certain company that subscribes to a certain reputation system? No problem. You will have choices, and the most important choice being to not participate at all.

    In this day in age, saying that anarchy = chaos is state and religious propaganda. No one in the developed world wants chaos; I believe in advancing humanity, not suppressing it like the state does with fear-mongering. We have the technology and communication to reach the whole world now and teach people how non-aggression and honesty is better for humanity than fear and violence. It just is.
    Last edited by j3nn; 09-13-2013 at 06:09 AM.
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  7. #447
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    It's also definitely the trend in human evolution, and kind of unstoppable when you think in big picture terms. There must be a literal race against it, with contingency plans and long-term Operations plotted in the ruling class, but ultimately they are fighting a losing battle I hope. It's really going to come down to man's capacity for courage.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  8. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    In a voluntary society, everything is optional. If you opt in to something, e.g., a civilized community, you will most likely have to abide by the rules of the non-aggression principle which is just basic goodwill toward fellow human beings or you will be treated as an aggressor and dealt with as such if you should commit an offensive act in that community (violation of property rights which start with the individual being one's most valuable property). Think: Craig's List; SMS verification, regulated by users and reputation. There could still be contracts and arbitrators and insurance companies and reputation systems and credit reports, or you can choose to forego all of that and not participate in civilization as well as most others would. The key here is voluntary. Right now you cannot escape unoptional laws, like having a social security number, compulsory schooling, and so on and so forth unless you are in the very small minority that have religious protection, but again, everyone should have individual protection. We live in a fascist society that depends on protectionism and favoritism for the select few. It is unfair. To make a truly fair society, absolutely everything must be optional. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for dinner. There is nothing fair about it. But in a voluntary society, you could join groups that implement such an unfair voting system, but you could also opt-out of it anytime you want, unlike the group we are all forced into at birth. What we have now is a monopoly on violence and currency; in a free and voluntary society, there would be competing forms of absolutely everything. Don't like a certain company that subscribes to a certain reputation system? No problem. You will have choices, and the most important choice being to not participate at all.

    In this day in age, saying that anarchy = chaos is state and religious propaganda. No one in the developed world wants chaos; I believe in advancing humanity, not suppressing it like the state does with fear-mongering. We have the technology and communication to reach the whole world now and teach people how non-aggression and honesty is better for humanity than fear and violence. It just is.
    You are so brainwashed. For every statement I make, you come up with another statement to cover your previous tracks. It's like a Christian explaining away every hole in their philosophy.

    Ok, explain the difference between "choosing which government to be under" in a voluntary society and in modern civilization.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 09-13-2013 at 09:57 AM.

  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    Compassion should be voluntary. IOW, if a community (defined as anything of more than one person with a like-mind on a given subject) decides to help someone in need, that's fine, but govt sanctioned welfare is not.

    However from my perspective, if you don't give the poor enough to subsist, they will steal to get it if they can't earn it. Jails/prisons cost more than welfare (~$50k/year to keep someone incarcerated), so I'm okay with welfare.
    Consider the fact that more efficient machinery put them out of work too. The unemployment rise is partly due to technological progress. I don't know what your job is, but imagine how you would feel if you were put on the street because you were no longer needed anywhere.

  10. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    People don't realize that groups aren't a problem in anarchy. The governments themselves, that are lumped into these groups, that statists feel are human nature, would be fought off by the building of organizations that comply in accordance with anarchist principles: consensus, decentralization, and federalism.
    "Consensus, decentralization, and federalism" are tenants of direct democracy, so you're not describing anarchy.

    Groups are a massive problem in anarchy. Want to know why? They've set up some form of government within their own group, so by working together with these rules, they have a massive competitive advantage against any other lone citizen. This makes the lone citizens group up. You can witness this phenomenon in any city with bad gang problems. It takes a grand unification of these gangs into an umbrella government for semi-peace to exist. Gang (aka tribal) violence is never ending and quite brutal.

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