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  1. #361
    Kochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    What a joke. The fact that human nature is hierarchic in a hierarchic society does not mean that a hierarchic division of people among different tasks is necessary for social life. It's not the capitalist institutions which satisfy human needs. It is the working people of capitalist society who shape themselves to fit the institutions of capitalist society.

    Your idea that civilization always defaults to a state, or a government, is metaphysical, non-empirical, ahistoric definition based on no facts and useless assumptions. Your entire post was full of slippery slope fallacies. Explain your stance on why this takes place, and leave your useless assumptions behind. Not interested in answering loaded questions.
    I'd say that 80% of everyone I've ever met (across 3 countries, 40+ cities/towns/villages and Gods know how many cultures) panics in a situation of non-authority and seeks the authority of another before acting. It's why fashion trends emerge, why certain celebrities are loved or hated, how fads are formed, why people stay in abusive relationships, how pseudoscience is believed...etc
    Even in areas where there is no official authority, people look up to others. The most 'popular' choice becomes the popular authority. This authority can then get away with a metric-shit-tonne more abuse than your run-of-the-mill person can. Think of the 30bad crew. One normal person on the forums says they can't quit cooked food? Attacked by the community. Banned by the 'authorities'. People accept the decision. Their 'leaders' start eating cooked food? Cooked food good. Or of some of the dumb fashion trends people follow. Everyday person wears a bright pink jacket? Pink's not popular. Pink bad. Gross. Unfashionable. Don't be seen with it. Celebrity/local popular person/fashion designer wears a bright pink jacket? Bright pink jackets sell out. Everyone seen in one at some point. Everywhere makes their own version to sell. That same person who was 'gross' before, who is still just wearing the jacket because they want to? They're hot now.

    Hell, I've worked out that, if you stand nearer the edge of the curb when waiting to cross, 8/10 people waiting next-to/behind you will NOT cross until you do so. When it's safe to cross before a car and I wait on the curb, the person behind me waits. When I step out and quickly move past a car that was getting pretty damn close, that person decides it's safe to cross and walks out after me. I've almost got people run over by doing that and sprinting in the last minute. Thrilling to watch such imbecility.

    Most people choose to be ruled in matters where ruling is not enforced.
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  2. #362
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    if the people had the ability to organize themselves, some would choose communes and others would choose capitalist areas. As long as no government were involved, no one would be coerced into doing something that they don't want to. No useless taxes, no "social contracts" which I never signed, no brainwashing. People need to be liberated from enslavement. Their minds must be engaged.

    Isolated examples don't mean everyone. People are already beginning to wake up. There is no phantom guiding me, there is just a need for freedom and affirmation for potential. Only the state and war mongering private corporations want war. Obama for example is a war criminal in every example of the term.

    Do you ever wonder why the state slanders and yet fears anarchy and freedom so much? Hint: it's not because people are inherently violent savage creatures. They're the only violent savages around.
    Last edited by Derpamix; 09-11-2013 at 04:21 PM.
    nihil

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    if the people had the ability to organize themselves, some would choose communes and others would choose capitalist areas. As long as no government were involved, no one would be coerced into doing something that they don't want to. No useless taxes, no "social contracts" which I never signed, no brainwashing. People need to be liberated from enslavement. Their minds must be engaged.

    Isolated examples don't mean everyone. People are already beginning to wake up. There is no phantom guiding me, there is just a need for freedom and affirmation for potential. Only the state and war mongering private corporations want war. Obama for example is a war criminal in every example of the term.
    I do think communes or tribes are the natural human state. I just also find that most people are incapable of fully independent action. My isolated examples are from across Gods know how many cultures and subcultures, hundreds of communities, 3 countries (physically), 20 countries (online) and tens of population centres. And I have met very few humans who do not seek leadership in even very simple matters.
    If your general person thought independently, there wouldn't be such a huge bias towards 'popular culture'. The most common diets, fanbases, music genres...etc would be the most common by a fraction of a percentage, not by a landslide. Yet your everyday delta seeks authority. Where they find no authority, they assign authority to one of those who desire it. Then they ask authority what they must do.
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    I do think communes or tribes are the natural human state. I just also find that most people are incapable of fully independent action. My isolated examples are from across Gods know how many cultures and subcultures, hundreds of communities, 3 countries (physically), 20 countries (online) and tens of population centres. And I have met very few humans who do not seek leadership in even very simple matters.
    If your general person thought independently, there wouldn't be such a huge bias towards 'popular culture'. The most common diets, fanbases, music genres...etc would be the most common by a fraction of a percentage, not by a landslide. Yet your everyday delta seeks authority. Where they find no authority, they assign authority to one of those who desire it. Then they ask authority what they must do.
    Yet, in my short life, I've never seen people so distrustful of government, and so resentful of big businesses(the GMO thing caught like a wildfire). Even now, this website, despite looking for leadership as you say, it's directly rebelling against the God awful health guidelines established by the state. It's small steps, it is not impossible. Anarchism is a permanent struggle. I have hope that it will happen though.

    Once people attach themselves to this ideology, even if it were lead by example, they are engaging their minds and struggling against the authoritarians that have atrophied them. It's not about being led, so much as being coerced into following. Democracy does not represent freedom or equality, it is a tool of the state. It has failed. There are obvious winners and losers among the outcome, as well as the obvious influence and corruption.
    Last edited by Derpamix; 09-11-2013 at 04:34 PM. Reason: *following derp
    nihil

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    Yet, in my short life, I've never seen people so distrustful of government, and so resentful of big businesses(the GMO thing caught like a wildfire). Even now, this website, despite looking for leadership as you say, it's directly rebelling against the God awful health guidelines established by the state. It's small steps, it is not impossible. Anarchism is a permanent struggle. I have hope that it will happen though.

    Once people attach themselves to this ideology, even if it were lead by example, they are engaging their minds and struggling against the authoritarians that have atrophied them. It's not about being led, so much as being coerced into leading. Democracy does not represent freedom or equality, it is a tool of the state. It has failed. There are obvious winners and losers among the outcome, as well as the obvious influence and corruption.
    People fight current authority because it is failing them. Don't get your hopes up. They will seek another authority. They vote red, then blue, then red, then blue, each time expecting novelty. Now that's wearing off, they'll vote green or yellow, or walk themselves into a dictatorship (which frequently arise from weak democracies such as those that currently abound in the West).

    I've reached the conclusion that a majority of the human population can no longer be educated in these matters, just brainwashed one way or another. You can brainwash them into accepting a truth, but it's still just brainwashing. Then again, if that gives you results, what does it matter? I manipulate people all the bloody time. If they're so weak as to accept my authority, then why not take advantage of their weakness? Survival of the fittest at its finest.

    Don't wait for others to awaken. Educate those who can be educated. Brainwash those who cannot be educated but may be useful. Allow these brainwashed people to put you and the educated on a pedestal. Use your position of authority to form your own tribe. Cut yourself off from the rest of them. Enjoy life.
    Waiting for others to awaken is futile and will just waste the time you'd otherwise enjoy.
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  6. #366
    Derpamix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    People fight current authority because it is failing them. Don't get your hopes up. They will seek another authority. They vote red, then blue, then red, then blue, each time expecting novelty. Now that's wearing off, they'll vote green or yellow, or walk themselves into a dictatorship (which frequently arise from weak democracies such as those that currently abound in the West).

    I've reached the conclusion that a majority of the human population can no longer be educated in these matters, just brainwashed one way or another. You can brainwash them into accepting a truth, but it's still just brainwashing. Then again, if that gives you results, what does it matter? I manipulate people all the bloody time. If they're so weak as to accept my authority, then why not take advantage of their weakness? Survival of the fittest at its finest.

    Don't wait for others to awaken. Educate those who can be educated. Brainwash those who cannot be educated but may be useful. Allow these brainwashed people to put you and the educated on a pedestal. Use your position of authority to form your own tribe. Cut yourself off from the rest of them. Enjoy life.
    Waiting for others to awaken is futile and will just waste the time you'd otherwise enjoy.
    Maybe I have too much hope in mankind, then.

    I believe our rights are inalienable. Each person born to the world is heir to all the preceding generations. I believe the whole world is ours by birth rights alone. Duties imposed as obligations or ideals, such as patriotism, duty to state, worship of a deity, submission to higher classes or authorities, respect for inherited privileges, are heinous lies. Given that, submission to these forms of slavery means to surrender your life. I don't believe that people are too stupid to do anything, let alone something as simple as what they are born as.

    I think that if I were to pass off my thoughts, I would leave it up to them, otherwise I'm no better than the fascist state which I hate. If this means a never-ending struggle until I die, and see my hopes crash and burn, then it is what it is. I feel, at least I will have held steadfast to my ideals.

    It all comes down to coercion versus free will. You are right though, I need to just learn to enjoy my own life.

    Now, Jefferson:

    "Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."
    Last edited by Derpamix; 09-11-2013 at 05:04 PM.
    nihil

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    I've been in a lot of situations where everyone is civilized and no one is governed.
    "Civilized" in that context means being agreeable with each other. That is far, far below the threshold needed to keep together the massive civilization that we have today. Don't you know that tribes tend to split up once they get close to a couple hundred or so? Natural human agreeableness would not hold together modern civilization.

  8. #368
    Derpamix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    "Civilized" in that context means being agreeable with each other. That is far, far below the threshold needed to keep together the massive civilization that we have today. Don't you know that tribes tend to split up once they get close to a couple hundred or so? Natural human agreeableness would not hold together modern civilization.


    pls go with this overdone statist bootlicking argument.
    nihil

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
    I just want to point out that on a thread where Wilt is lamenting not being able to meet women who are "up to standard" I've now gotten TWO women who are very much "up to standard" to consider coming out to Colorado to hang out and hike and possibly make out.

    Wilt, do you want some personal training on this?
    Up to standard because they want to fuck? Being states away from you, you must have some low standards.

    Up to standard because they are smart? Not by my observation.

  10. #370
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    Mr. A, give up on trying to teach someone too dumb to learn...

    He obviously thinks no one is "up to standard" aside from mom and his right hand.
    Last edited by turquoisepassion; 09-11-2013 at 05:31 PM.
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