Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: Something's going on page

  1. #1
    PrimalStudent's Avatar
    PrimalStudent is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    267

    Something's going on

    Shop Now
    I've only been on MDA for less than a year, but I'm noticing a huge difference between the conversations going on on the forum now, and the ones that circulated back in 2011 or 2010 (and even as recently as 2012). It seems like there's a lot more liberalism towards starches and fruit, and carbs in general.

    Is it because the science has changed? Or are people just realizing they can lose/maintain just fine, even while eating starch and fruit every day? Just curious what everyone thinks.

  2. #2
    bloodorchid's Avatar
    bloodorchid is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    tn
    Posts
    9,487
    the changes i've noticed in my time are carb centric dieting, fat centric dieting & lots and lots of cursing
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I used to think I was funny until I met Kathy Griffin. Im gonna have to call my mama and have her tell me how good I am. - ginger minj

  3. #3
    j3nn's Avatar
    j3nn is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Manhattan, NY
    Posts
    4,090
    It was bound to happen. The rigid carb curve was never a good idea. Arbitrary numbers of any kind are not a good idea in a broad topic like diet. That goes for the Jaminets' pound of starch a day and beyond. What if someone does better on more or less? I think the downfall of the Paleo diet is prescribing fixed numbers and percentages. That just creates confusion and disagreements, and possibly encourages going down wrong, dangerous avenues.

    I think minimum numbers are ok in general for basic nutrition, but setting ceilings is bound to cause problems and resistance.
    Last edited by j3nn; 03-07-2013 at 06:11 PM.
    | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

    It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men. - Samuel Adams

  4. #4
    magnolia1973's Avatar
    magnolia1973 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,271
    I think the real value in Primal and Paleo is ditching the processed foods that make us sick.

    I think *some* people have issues that a whole foods diet does not address, hence the tweaks. I think *some* people like being food martyrs and maybe have some eating disorders going on. I think *some* people are super into science. I think a lot of people get very confused about how other people define low carb. Low carb to me is ketosis. Low carb to some people is under 100 grams of carbs. High carb to some people is 100 grams of carbs and to others, 400 grams if carbs. One man's "evil sugar binge" is a handful of blueberries and another man's is the haagen daz binge.

    Mostly every thing is very vague; people are probably disagreeing while they say the same thing.

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

  5. #5
    DeeDub's Avatar
    DeeDub is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    442
    It seems to me there are fewer True Believers insisting on a One Truth Path.

    Makes for a less...exciting...board. But also a more informative one.

  6. #6
    RichMahogany's Avatar
    RichMahogany is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    9,236
    Lots of "disagreeing while saying the same thing." But your question is big and the answer isn't simple.

    Is Primal low carb? Is 150g/day low carb? Compared to SAD, hell yeah. Compared to what's actually eaten by people who eat all whole foods with no ingredient lists that don't come in a box? It's kinda high unless you base every meal on rice and potatoes.

    Is VLC for everyone? I don't read Mark's books that way. Is it for me? Yeah, when I want to have beach abs or make weight for a competition. But I'm one of the people who feel and perform great in ketosis. Lots of people don't.

    Are the Kitavans a black swan to the carbohydrate hypothesis of obesity? Yup. So are the Okinawans and several others. Does that mean that there aren't good reasons to eat VLC? Nope. I feel great eating that way. Some people have diseases that, for one reason or another, respond well to eating that way. Epilepsy is a definite. T2D is pretty firmly in that camp too. Obesity? I think so. Even if carbohydrates don't cause insulin resistance, (as shown by the above mentioned groups, among others), restricting them has a pretty solid reputation for helping to correct it. At least that's what the evidence I've seen tends to suggest.

    But I think the cause is just that as these concepts grow, there are trends that emerge and new thinkers who put their spin on things and we all come from different backgrounds and different places and have different frameworks to mesh the data into.

  7. #7
    magicmerl's Avatar
    magicmerl is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    3,227
    I think that for a lot of people 2-3 years ago, being paleo meant being VLC (very low carb). Gary Taubes et al were regarded as being credible. Now, even if people agree with the conclusions he is reaching, his proposed mechanisms have been largely discredited.

    Now the safe starches ship has sailed into port, with reasonably inarguable scientific credentials, so some of the former proponents of VLC have quietly changed flags.

    Of course, there's lots more bio-hacks than just cutting out wheat and sugar that come and go on the forums. There's iodine, intermittent fasting, cold thermogenesis, potato-diets etc etc as well. Some people (trolls really) are even advocating Peatisms like sugar.
    Last edited by magicmerl; 03-07-2013 at 07:05 PM.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  8. #8
    GKL's Avatar
    GKL
    GKL is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    55
    I was in the VLC camp but I've drifted to what Mark talks about in terms of "safe" carbs in the context of overall health and activity levels. One of the big insights that caused me to question Taubes conclusion was that many proteins are as insulinogenic as many carbs. That, plus the traditional societies mentioned above that achieved great health and leanness on a diet rich in starchy carbs. I do well when I eat VLC or LC but if I put some starch around my work outs I can achieve greater intensity which has its benefits

  9. #9
    JoanieL's Avatar
    JoanieL is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.
    Posts
    8,596
    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    I think the real value in Primal and Paleo is ditching the processed foods that make us sick.
    +1

    I also think they offer a great alternative to the idea that in order to be healthy or have green politics, you have to be vegan or vegetarian.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

  10. #10
    KimchiNinja's Avatar
    KimchiNinja is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Seoul
    Posts
    2,023
    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalStudent View Post
    It seems like there's a lot more liberalism towards starches and fruit, and carbs in general.
    Not me, I'm a purist.

    No 80/20 rule here, 100%.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •