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Thread: Storing fat WITHOUT insulin - ASP page 2

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenHLi View Post
    Choco,

    Can you explain your stance on this premise, thanks.
    What do you mean? My stance is that you cannot lose weight without an energy deficit and you cannot gain weight without a caloric surplus, and that a person that trains with heavy weights will lose a better fat:muscle ratio on a deficit and gain a better muscle:fat ratio on a surplus. Lift heavy, monitor your food intake accordingly to suit your goals.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Weight loss is entirely caloric. It doesn't matter if it's fat, carbs or protein. Excess dietary fat is stored directly as body fat. Excess dietary carbohydrate is converted into fat. Excess dietary protein is converted into glucose which is then converted into fat. If you overeat, you gain weight. Period. It's calories-in-calories-out. Your best bet is to find the foods that keep you fullest longest so you eat the least, or adopt heavy weight training so when you do overeat, you're more likely to gain a better muscle:fat ratio.
    Yup.

    The argument against this loses credibility when the argument fails to recognize that certain foods have higher thermal effects and/or are less nutritionally available than others, which still amounts to cico, even if certain foods seem to manipulate your consumption on the surface allowing for greater volumes or amounts of food eaten.
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  3. #13
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    However, it's hard to deny the plateau effect of low carb. I think low carb works very well to drop a lot of weight, but at some point many find it necessary to add in carbs to get a leaner, athletic looking body.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    However, it's hard to deny the plateau effect of low carb. I think low carb works very well to drop a lot of weight, but at some point many find it necessary to add in carbs to get a leaner, athletic looking body.
    I'd wager that has much to do with carbs having half the calories of fat per gram but also taking more energy to digest and absorb. Plus, they tend to give most people immediate energy to burn resulting in improved workouts or additional everyday movement.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    However, it's hard to deny the plateau effect of low carb. I think low carb works very well to drop a lot of weight, but at some point many find it necessary to add in carbs to get a leaner, athletic looking body.
    Some diets affect the TDEE - the Total Daily Energy Expenditure - of a person. Hormones do have an affect, no doubt, but that doesn't make weight loss or weight gain hormonal. What you need to do is consume a diet replete in nutrients with a balanced intake of macronutrients so it best supports a high metabolic rate. On this forum, you hear all the time of people that swear up and down that they track their calories and couldn't lose weight on a SAD even though they were eating at a deficit. My question is:

    A deficit based on what? Some random online calculator that lumped you into some generalized group?

    Calorie calculators aren't accurate on an individual basis, and you are tasked with finding your own personal TDEE. If you were eating a diet of whole grains and the only fat you were taking in came from chicken breast and canola oil, that's not healthy. You are starving on a micronutrient level and inflamed from poor quality dietary fats, and this paired with a low calorie intake is going to wreak havoc on your metabolism and drop your TDEE so low overtime you will soon be unable to eat that low of a calorie intake without starving yourself to death. Hence, the binge cycle you hear about.

    Primal dieting has an advantage for a few reasons:

    1.) You are consuming high quality calories, so you are less likely to be deplete of any micronutrients when maintaining a deficit.

    2.) You are consuming whole foods, which make you feel fuller than flours, refined sugars and refined oils, making a caloric deficit easier on your belly.

    3.) Nutrient-dense foods and a clearer mental state will support a more robust metabolic rate, which will give you more "play" in your caloric deficit.

    The low-carb plateau I believe is a real thing, and I believe it is for the following reasons:

    1.) Fat is the most calorically dense macro. Eating 150 extra calories a day when you're 100 lbs overweight doesn't mean much, but it means a lot when you're 15 lbs overweight. A single tablespoon of oil has 120 calories, so "a few extra bites" than you need on a fatty meal means a lot more than on a more conservative meal.

    2.) Prolonged carbohydrate restriction downregulates your thyroid, which lowers your metabolic rate.

    3.) Carbohydrate and protein have a significant thermic effect. Fat does not.

    4.) Any diet that restricts a macronutrient for a prolonged period increases the chances of binging.


    My advice would be:

    1.) Make protein the centerpiece of every meal. It is the most satisfying in terms of hunger and has the highest thermic burn rate by far.

    2.) Don't worry about fats or carbs. Eat what your body is craving.

    I find that any diet that restricts a macro leads to binging. When you're deficient in one macronutrient, you force your body to convert an excess of another to compensate (excess protein to glucose in HFLC, excess carbohydrate to palmitate in LFHC). Any time you restrict your body from something it wants directly, you'll intensify any cravings you may have since the body prefers to receive nutrients directly. Why not just eat balanced? You will be the least likely to binge since your body will never feel deprived, and less likely to overeat while maintaining a healthy thyroid and lowest levels of stress hormones. It always comes down to calories-in-calories-out. It just happens that some diets support a robust metabolism much better than others.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    However, it's hard to deny the plateau effect of low carb. I think low carb works very well to drop a lot of weight, but at some point many find it necessary to add in carbs to get a leaner, athletic looking body.
    Low carb diets can be a good solution for people that have enough body fat and does low intensity exercises for weightloss, but when leaning out and being able to work out with more intensity you better get some carbs for glycogen replenishment, especially if being physically very active and want to keep on to lean body tissue! The good thing about low carb diets are that they may be easier to control hunger for many people, so it is a useful tool, and it is also possible to cycle carbs as I sometimes do myself when going low carbs...

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    However, it's hard to deny the plateau effect of low carb. I think low carb works very well to drop a lot of weight, but at some point many find it necessary to add in carbs to get a leaner, athletic looking body.
    This has been my experience, too. The bad news for me is that as I increase carbs, my appetite and cravings tend to get out of control. It's very difficult for me to keep a good macro balance, being the all or nothing type. I currently do carb cycling and I think it's working well so far.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    What do you mean? My stance is that you cannot lose weight without an energy deficit and you cannot gain weight without a caloric surplus, and that a person that trains with heavy weights will lose a better fat:muscle ratio on a deficit and gain a better muscle:fat ratio on a surplus. Lift heavy, monitor your food intake accordingly to suit your goals.
    Thank you for your response!

    If you may, please give me your definition of "energy deficit" and your definition of "caloric surplus".

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Weight loss is entirely caloric. It doesn't matter if it's fat, carbs or protein. Excess dietary fat is stored directly as body fat. Excess dietary carbohydrate is converted into fat. Excess dietary protein is converted into glucose which is then converted into fat. If you overeat, you gain weight. Period. It's calories-in-calories-out. Your best bet is to find the foods that keep you fullest longest so you eat the least, or adopt heavy weight training so when you do overeat, you're more likely to gain a better muscle:fat ratio.
    Saying that Weight loss is entirely "anything" is an oversimplification.
    Some of you may die, but that is a risk I'm willing to take.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Timber View Post
    Saying that Weight loss is entirely "anything" is an oversimplification.
    In order to lose weight, you have to consume less energy than you expend. It isn't an oversimplification. People make things too complicated to try and come up with excuses for their actions. Are you not losing weight? You're probably just eating too much and not moving around enough. It really is that easy.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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