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Thread: Classing lifting thread - Having trouble with weight-lifting. page 4

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Q: Are white-carbs actually needed to grow muscle? Or do they assist muscle growth, and how so?
    The way I think it works is that the carbs help replenish your glycogen which makes you feel more energetic, and if you feel energetic and strong you can lift more weight and if you can lift more weight you will grow more muscle. That might not be how it actually works, but pretty much anything that lets you lift more weight will help you grow more muscle.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 180 x 2. Current Deadlift: 230 x 2

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    The assumption that excess fat is directly stored as fat, while carbs are used by the body as timed-release fuel and glycogen loading is three decades old conventional wisdom. That is the basis of the fat free diet.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    The assumption that excess fat is directly stored as fat, while carbs are used by the body as timed-release fuel and glycogen loading is three decades old conventional wisdom. That is the basis of the fat free diet.
    excess EVERYTHING is stored as fat. carbs are utilized to replenish glycogen and provide energy. any excess carbs are also stored as fat. whether you believe what i said to be CW or not is your opinion. what i stated is true
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    excess EVERYTHING is stored as fat. carbs are utilized to replenish glycogen and provide energy. any excess carbs are also stored as fat. whether you believe what i said to be CW or not is your opinion. what i stated is true
    Um... okay. Which is why CW considers it safe to eat unlimited carbs while no amount of fat is safe. Maybe I should have made that part clearer.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    Um... okay. Which is why CW considers it safe to eat unlimited carbs while no amount of fat is safe. Maybe I should have made that part clearer.
    honestly, wtf are you even talking about? excess calories, regardless of the source, are stored as fat. nobody is talking about fat free diets here. if you truly think that carbs are the enemy, or that primal or paleo dieting is in any way, shape or form a low carb diet, then you need to re-read the book. unlimited carbs ARE safe. carbs are not the enemy.
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    I came across this old post from Kurt Harris that I posted in another thread recently:
    Archevore - Archevore Blog - Insulin is a doorman at the fat cell nightclub, not a lock on the*door

    I agree with most of what y'all are saying. I guess the main point of contention is "what is excess"? If you are training hard (burning glycogen) and not eating much in the way of carbs, your performance will suffer somewhat, at least when you try to tap your "top gear". You can still lift heavy, just not as many reps, etc.

    I think it is harder to eat a caloric excess from carbs if you are training hard than it is to get the same excess from fat for at least 2 reasons. One, simple caloric density. Two, if you are training hard, you will be burning through significant amounts of glycogen on a regular basis. Typical whole-body glycogen storage is 400-600g, sometimes higher (depends on many factors). Your body will replenish glycogen before it goes through the work of converting carbs to fat for de novo lipogenesis. It's actually pretty dang hard to reach that point. Typically, it's not that the carbs are being stored as fat, it's that they're preventing oxidation of fat (either bodyfat or dietary fat). Here's a good post from Lyle McDonald that covers it pretty well I think.:
    How We Get Fat | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
    Last edited by yodiewan; 03-07-2013 at 11:59 AM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by yodiewan View Post
    I came across this old post from Kurt Harris that I posted in another thread recently:
    Archevore - Archevore Blog - Insulin is a doorman at the fat cell nightclub, not a lock on the*door

    I agree with most of what y'all are saying. I guess the main point of contention is "what is excess"? If you are training hard (burning glycogen) and not eating much in the way of carbs, your performance will suffer somewhat, at least when you try to tap your "top gear". You can still lift heavy, just not as many reps, etc.

    I think it is harder to eat a caloric excess from carbs if you are training hard than it is to get the same excess from fat for at least 2 reasons. One, simple caloric density. Two, if you are training hard, you will be burning through significant amounts of glycogen on a regular basis. Typical whole-body glycogen storage is 400-600g, sometimes higher (depends on many factors). Your body will replenish glycogen before it goes through the work of converting carbs to fat for de novo lipogenesis. It's actually pretty dang hard to reach that point. Here's a good post from Lyle McDonald that covers it pretty well I think:
    How We Get Fat | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
    good links
    I have a lot of hard miles on my body from before I realized I'm not 100% invulnerable. Now I just think I'm 75% invulnerable. -Mr. Anthony

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    my reasoning, and i could be wrong is sort of twofold. 1-excess fat consumed is stored directly as fat. and we don't need nearly as much dietary fat as some of the bulletproof coffee and fat-bomb guzzlers around here would have us believe. and 2, the carbs will restore the glycogen stores depleted by the strenuous exercise needed to adequately break down muscle tissue. plus, post workout insulin spikes create an ideal anabolic state (although you will hear people argue to what degree)

    do you agree that you need to have a caloric surplus in order to build muscle? if yes (i hope yes) then explain to me how excess dietary fat would aid in muscle growth as opposed to carbohydrate consumption. what role does fat play in muscle growth?
    I agree on all accounts. Come to think of it, about a year ago in the midst of a running injury I lifted for about three months and recall getting up to 180 pounds. However, I was consuming in xs of 500g of carbohydrates a day and between 4-5,000 calories. Now, I certainly do not believe I need that many carbs, and would find it unhealthy. But what I am recalling is that I seemed to put on muscle fairly quick in those three months.

    Here is an interesting question, however. Say I get up to 185 pounds, will I require the same amount of carbs to maintain this weight and muscle mass? My intuition tells me that if I return to a high fat, low-carb diet while maintaining a sufficient calorie intake, that my muscle will be preserved. I understand that some of you may ridicule this question as stupid, but I am under the impression that our understanding of the human body is incredibly incomplete, so I am always trying to ask questions to fortify/mold my knowledge.

  9. #39
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    And please, let's not let this thread become a debate between CW and Primal/Paleo. I think we can all appreciate the factual science and also agree that carbs are not the devils preferred food.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future_PB_Dr View Post
    I agree on all accounts. Come to think of it, about a year ago in the midst of a running injury I lifted for about three months and recall getting up to 180 pounds. However, I was consuming in xs of 500g of carbohydrates a day and between 4-5,000 calories. Now, I certainly do not believe I need that many carbs, and would find it unhealthy. But what I am recalling is that I seemed to put on muscle fairly quick in those three months.

    Here is an interesting question, however. Say I get up to 185 pounds, will I require the same amount of carbs to maintain this weight and muscle mass? My intuition tells me that if I return to a high fat, low-carb diet while maintaining a sufficient calorie intake, that my muscle will be preserved. I understand that some of you may ridicule this question as stupid, but I am under the impression that our understanding of the human body is incredibly incomplete, so I am always trying to ask questions to fortify/mold my knowledge.
    if you get up to 185lbs, and the weight increase is in lean muscle mass, and not water weight, you should be able to preserve the muscle mass with adequate calorie intake, with an emphasis on getting enough protein in your diet. that would be my guess. lowering carb intake may cause you to drop a little water weight, revealing just how much lean mass you actually gained during your higher carb experiment.
    I have a lot of hard miles on my body from before I realized I'm not 100% invulnerable. Now I just think I'm 75% invulnerable. -Mr. Anthony

    Give me a spouse/life-partner who I don't want to punch in the throat when she talks. -Canio6

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