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Thread: Fat Loss : Is it 80% Diet?? page 10

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    Some of the best movers I have known are scrawny-looking guys.
    How did we get here? The OP just wants to lose fat and maintain muscle. Resistance training is the way to go. I think it's wise to add in mobility and flexibility work as well. On top of that, playing and enjoying your workouts is key for overall health.
    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by iniQuity View Post
    How did we get here? The OP just wants to lose fat and maintain muscle. Resistance training is the way to go. I think it's wise to add in mobility and flexibility work as well. On top of that, playing and enjoying your workouts is key for overall health.
    "Resistance training" is not what has been pushed in this thread. It has devolved into "EVERYBODY MUST DO THE EXACT SAME WORKOUT!!!!" and bizarre drivel about how bulky powerlifters make the best furniture movers. Because, like, Grok didn't have furniture dollies, so are they primal?
    Last edited by eKatherine; 03-05-2013 at 07:58 AM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    "Resistance training" is not what has been pushed in this thread. It has devolved into "EVERYBODY MUST DO THE EXACT SAME WORKOUT!!!!" and bizarre drivel about how bulky powerlifters make the best furniture movers.
    Ohhh that's what you meant by "movers" haha I thought you meant movers in the sense of you know, overall movement, dancing, crawling, climbing, etc... sorry about that!

    I agree that this thread got hella stupid rather quick. I do think people should engage in resistance training, it simply makes people healthier across the board - but progressive loading is important, you can't jump into super heavy weight.

    I also do think people SHOULD be able to squat, if you can't squat ass to grass with just your bodyweight you should work on your mobility. Same goes if you can't put your arms overhead, etc. We're here to better ourselves, so if we can't do a "grok squat" we should work on it.

    As far as back squat goes, personally I'm front squatting most of the time. You can't do as much weight on the front squat, but that's just fine by me. It's still challenging to me and I can maintain form much better.
    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post

    Patently false statement from the guy who calls me a troll.

    Why All Muscle Was Not Created Equal - DeFranco's Training
    LOL, Joe DeFranco, the owner of the world # 1 hardcore Gym for serious athletes says; “But remember that no matter how bad those high-rep sets of leg extensions burn, they will never build the strength, power, and functional hypertrophy of a heavy set of squats or deads!”

    So, this shallow article is what you’re you are clinging to in your bro-scientific “wisdom”? LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post

    I gave you two ideas for this already. Who do you want by your side in a combat situation? The guy who leg presses all day but lacks the mobility to even get his hands on the bar for the deadlift? Who would you prefer help move your couch up a flight of stairs? You can have the brodude with the "swole" calves in the muscle shirt. I'll have Andy Bolton.
    And I would have chosen a strongman trained guy that had specific training in doing exactly what you are going to do! Running with wounded guy on back, then train for that. Lifting heavy couch up a flight of stairs, then you must train for that. Probably a Greek-Roman or a free style wrestler from the same weight category would be a better pick than your big time squat powerlifter, so don’t expect a good barbell squat to help you in awkward or uncommon situations...

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post

    I certainly don't purport to know how one tests the strength of a quadriceps. I can only think of meaningful ways of testing the strength of the individual to whom the quadriceps are attached. In your favorite guru Mark Rippetoe's oft-used example: Who can clean more weight, a guy who deadlifts 200 lbs or a guy who deadlifts 500 lbs? The answer is clear and obvious. Are you as confident if we change the word "deadlift" to "leg press?" I'm not.
    As you probably know a deadlift is a part of the clean movement, so not that extraordinary if you take out a part of the movement and train for that then you will also be better on doing the whole movement?

    Let me give you an example then; Who can pull himself up in a one arm chin, a big time deadlifter or a trained gymnast? Powerlifters are according to established bro-science the best “pullers” on the planet right, so then they must also be good in one arms chins, another pull movement? Not so fast, they probably suck in doing it, if they haven’t trained it a lot! So another time; "strength" is always SPECIFIC, the best guys are the guys that has trained for doing exactly the movement we are testing them in.

    And that concludes my discussion on this topic with you, RichMahogany, not that I think it will sink in though...
    Last edited by Gorbag; 03-05-2013 at 09:36 AM.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    LOL, Joe DeFranco, the owner of the world # 1 hardcore Gym for serious athletes says; “But remember that no matter how bad those high-rep sets of leg extensions burn, they will never build the strength, power, and functional hypertrophy of a heavy set of squats or deads!”

    So, this shallow article is what you’re you are clinging to in your bro-scientific “wisdom”? LOL
    Forget the source, try reading the content of the article. I was refuting your earlier claim. I don't get as upset as you do when we disagree with each other, but at least I don't resort to intellectual dishonesty/strawmen/ad hominem attacks in place of actually addressing the point of contention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    And I would have chosen a strongman trained guy that had specific training in doing exactly what you are going to do! Running with wounded guy on back, then train for that. Lifting heavy couch up a flight of stairs, then you must train for that. Probably a Greek-Roman or a free style wrestler from the same weight category would be a better pick than your big time squat powerlifter, so don’t expect a good barbell squat to help you in awkward or uncommon situations...
    I think your strongman-trained guy and your wrestlers are great choices. Especially the strongman. How do you think they train for general strength (as opposed to event-specific training)? Leg press machine or barbell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    As you probably know squatting is a part of the clean movement, so not that extraordinary if you take out a part of the movement and train for that then you will also be better on doing the whole movement? May I suggest front squat rather than the back squat?
    I believe I said deadlift. I'm talking about strength. Of course you'll get better at a specific motion if you train the motion. But being GENERALLY strong comes in REAL handy if we're talking about moving heavy weight. And the low-bar back squat allows you to recruit more muscle fibers and move more weight (and with a much less severe knee angle, for the record) than the front squat. Hence it allows you to get GENERALLY stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Let me give you an example then; Who can pull himself up in a one arm chin, a big time deadlifter or a trained gymnast? Powerlifters are according to established bro-science the best “pullers” on the planet right, so then they must also be good in one arms chins, another pull movement? Not so fast, they probably suck in doing it, if they haven’t trained it a lot! So another time; "strength" is always SPECIFIC, the best guys are the guys that has trained for doing exactly the movement we are testing them in.

    And that concludes my discussion on this topic with you, RichMahogany, not that I think it will sink in though...
    Quit stomping your feet and storming off like a little girl who got told she can't have a pony. You're the worst arch nemesis ever. Unbunch your panties, sir.

    You're confusing fitness with strength. My powerlifter example would certainly lose to your gymnast example in a chin-up contest. That doesn't really address the issue of which of the two is stronger though.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post

    I believe I said deadlift. I'm talking about strength. Of course you'll get better at a specific motion if you train the motion. But being GENERALLY strong comes in REAL handy if we're talking about moving heavy weight. And the low-bar back squat allows you to recruit more muscle fibers and move more weight (and with a much less severe knee angle, for the record) than the front squat. Hence it allows you to get GENERALLY stronger.
    Yeah, deadlift, I changed it, but my point still stands, deadlift is the start and a part of a clean, se my changes above.

    "Generally stronger" is nothing less than empty metaphysic's if we can't test it in some way, so give me an example from excercise physiology that operates with a concept of 'general strength'.

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post

    You're confusing fitness with strength. My powerlifter example would certainly lose to your gymnast example in a chin-up contest. That doesn't really address the issue of which of the two is stronger though.
    Stronger for what? 'General strength' as you seem to use it, is empty metaphysic's if it is not testable, strength must be related to something SPECIFIC...

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Yeah, deadlift, I changed it, but my point still stands, deadlift is the start and a part of a clean, se my changes above.
    I'm not sure what your argument is on this point. Sorry, I've lost you now. What is this point that still stands?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    "Generally stronger" is nothing less than empty metaphysic's if we can't test it in some way, so give me an example from excercise physiology that operates with a concept of 'general strength'.
    Why do I have to give you an example of exercise physiology that operates with a concept of 'general strength' to prove that someone who lifts actually heavy weight is stronger than someone who pushes a machine with his legs? You can leg press 2000 tons but can't move a big rock out of your way. Are you strong? As strong as a guy who squats 500 pounds to parallel and stabilizes the weight on his own?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Stronger for what? 'General strength' as you seem to use it, is empty metaphysic's if it is not testable, strength must be related to something SPECIFIC...
    Strength must be applicable in general or its useless. If it wasn't a general adaptation, then athletes wouldn't weight train at all unless they were powerlifters or weightlifters. Or every exercise would just be a higher-resistance version of their actual sports motion. But, to use your own example, wrestlers seem to have found that being GENERALLY stronger is advantageous in their sports, so they lift heavy things.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    I'm not sure what your argument is on this point. Sorry, I've lost you now. What is this point that still stands?
    That the example from Rippetoe is trivial and im my posting I questioned; "... not that extraordinary if you take out a part of the movement and train for that then you will also be better on doing the whole movement?"

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Why do I have to give you an example of exercise physiology that operates with a concept of 'general strength' to prove that someone who lifts actually heavy weight is stronger than someone who pushes a machine with his legs? You can leg press 2000 tons but can't move a big rock out of your way. Are you strong? As strong as a guy who squats 500 pounds to parallel and stabilizes the weight on his own?
    Depends on the testing protocol: If the testing protocol for "leg strength" is one legged machine legpress and the legpress specialist guy presses more than the squat guy, then guess who has the strongest leg strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Strength must be applicable in general or its useless. If it wasn't a general adaptation, then athletes wouldn't weight train at all unless they were powerlifters or weightlifters. Or every exercise would just be a higher-resistance version of their actual sports motion. But, to use your own example, wrestlers seem to have found that being GENERALLY stronger is advantageous in their sports, so they lift heavy things.
    When the relevant musclefibres get bigger they get get stronger from a physiological perspective, and that gives you a potential for a "carry over" effect to other activities. Closer to your concept of 'general strength' than that I don't think you can come ...
    Last edited by Gorbag; 03-05-2013 at 11:01 AM.

  9. #99
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    Barbell compound lifts such as squats are the most effective and efficient way to gain strength. These lifts allow people to train an enormous amount of muscle through a full range of motion using the heaviest weight possible within a natural movement pattern. There is nothing that will make your legs as strong as training them with full squats, for example.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    Barbell compound lifts such as squats are the most effective and efficient way to gain strength. These lifts allow people to train an enormous amount of muscle through a full range of motion using the heaviest weight possible within a natural movement pattern. There is nothing that will make your legs as strong as training them with full squats, for example.
    Well, according to Mr. Gorbag, you gain more strength by doing the leg press. So long as you pick the leg press as the measure of strength. I think that's his main argument here. Personally, I'll probably just keep on squatting and deadlifting.

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