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  1. #21
    bloodorchid's Avatar
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    i just drank a glass of cow teat milk

    that said, when i think of aspartame in milk i think of horror. curdled chunks. chemical aftertaste. curdled chunks.
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  2. #22
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    To each their own on this topic...
    Cows milk is not unhealthy at all.

    If a person is not sensitive to it, it is actually highly nutritious.
    And if they are sensitive to cows milk there is goats milk.
    Or cultured dairy.

    But, to each their own.
    No need to tell other people that they should not consume it.
    If you choose not to that is a personal preference.


    But FFS, no artificial sweeteners!
    I get raw, grass fed, organic, yada yada for $5 per half gal... and it's DELICIOUS.
    (Man, I love me some Guernsey milk!)
    Last edited by cori93437; 02-28-2013 at 01:12 PM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayla2010 View Post
    Why do you think kids need plenty of cows milk gorbag?
    Whats wrong with breast milk? After they wean, which really should be much later than I fed mine, they don't need milk anymore.
    Nothing wrong with human breastmilk if you can get enough of it until the age of twenty or so! Milk from cows is excellent to grow muscles and bones, much better than meat for kids IMO. In my family I became the tallest, 1.87 cm, and 15 centimer more than my father, probably because I did such amounts of milk. Avoid juice and other sugardrinks and let the kids drink plenty of milk is what I recommend, more is better...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    For the last 5 years or so I have instructed the woman that take cares of my two kids to put Splenda in their milk because they drink more of it that way, and they have less desire for other sugary drinks! But of course, it would be wrong not to label it if aspartame is added to milk; everybody should have the right to choose for themselves and their kids.
    See, this to me is terrible. Not only are you tricking your children to overconsume, you're doing it with a toxic carcinogen. You're implying a chemical is healthier than sugar, which is recognizable energy to the body. Sugar bears little difference from fat - they're largely empty calories. Honey is more nutritious than some isolated primal fats - like bacon grease, rendered lard, various nut and seed oils - it's ridiculous to assert that sugar is some unhealthy thing because there is no causative evidence to support it, and calling it worse than Splenda...that's just wild.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Processed sugar is not that healthy in my opinion, especially when added to drinks, and to people not that physically active, because of high amounts of fructose, but also because it increases demands of micronutrients etc., so better to limit it. My household uses a mixture of ordinary sugar and Stevia, and this also reduces the total amount of fructose, but I see no reason to ban it completely though…
    There is zero causative evidence that sugar is unhealthy.

    Grains are unhealthy because they are rich in lectins, anti-nutrients and inflammatory proteins (like gluten, avenin, zein, etc).

    Vegetable oils are unhealthy because they are rich in oxidized PUFA - rancid fats that create free radicals in the body upon ingestion.

    Chemicals are unhealthy because they aren't food. They're chemicals. They don't belong in the body.

    Why are sugars unhealthy? They don't contain anti-nutrients. They don't contain lectins. They are stable under heat, air and light. They store in the tissues as saturated and omega-9 monounsaturated fats, not polyunsaturated fats (unlike oils rich in PUFA - lard, poultry fat, nuts and seeds, which are considered Paleo). Exactly where does this logic that sugar is unhealthy come from? Fruit sugar has been shown to be protective to diabetes.

    The Advanced Glycation End Product, N-(Carboxymethyl)lysine, Is a Product of both Lipid Peroxidation and Glycoxidation Reactions



    Comparison of CML formation in RNase from arachidonate or glucose. RNase (1 mM) was incubated with 100 mM arachidonate (○, replotted from Fig. 2), or 100 mM glucose (▵) in PBS. CML was measured by GC/MS as described under “Materials and Methods.” Data are expressed as described in the legend to Fig. 2.
    Ray Peat breaks it down here:

    The name, “glycation,” indicates the addition of sugar groups to proteins, such as occurs in diabetes and old age, but when tested in a controlled experiment, lipid peroxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids produces the protein damage about 23 times faster than the simple sugars do (Fu, et al., 1996). And the oxidation of fats rather than glucose means that the proteins won't have as much protective carbon dioxide combined with their reactive nitrogen atoms, so the real difference in the organism is likely to be greater than that seen by Fu, et al...Simply making animals “deficient” in the unsaturated vegetable oils (which allows them to synthesize their own series of animal polyunsaturated fats, which are very stable), protects them against “autoimmune” diabetes, and against a variety of other “immunological” challenges. The “essential fatty acid” deficiency increases the oxidation of glucose, as it increases the metabolic rate generally.

    Saturated fats improve the insulin-secreting response to glucose.

    The protective effects of sugar, and the harmful effects of excessive fat metabolism, are now being widely recognized, in every field of physiology. The unsaturated vegetable fats, linoleic and linolenic acid and their derivatives, such as arachidonic acid and the long chain fish oils, have excitatory, stress promoting effects, that shift metabolism away from the oxidation of glucose, and finally destroy the respiratory metabolism altogether. Since cell injury and death generally involve an imbalance between excitation and the ability to produce energy, it is significant that the oxidation of unsaturated fatty acids seems to consume energy, lowering cellular ATP (Clejan, et al, 1986).

    The bulk of the age-related tissue damage classified as “glycation end-products” (or “advanced glycation end-products,” AGE) is produced by decomposition of the polyunsaturated fats, rather than by sugars, and this would be minimized by the protective oxidation of glucose to carbon dioxide.
    Sugar is very stable in the body and doesn't oxidize like PUFA-rich fats do. There is nothing harmful about glucose. It is so essential that your body has over millennia evolved multiple ways to create glucose in its absence - it is so essential, it'll consume its own muscles, organs and bones to get it! Fructose has many advantages as it increases CO2 during cellular respiration while having a minimal effect on insulin - that means you can eat carbohydrate with a very low tendency to store fat with the greatest increase of carbohydrate-induced TEF. It sends your thyroid into overdrive. You'll probably never find a fat fruitarian. Starch is finally getting some good press in the Paleo/Primal community - and I'm thankful for that - but it creates a comparatively massive surge of insulin, so it's more likely to be turned into body fat than equal calories from sugar. I try to keep starch limited to after workouts because I know it's going to glycogen rather than my waistline. Fruit is fair game regardless of activity level.

    Sugar is empty calories in many cases, so displacing real food for it is a problem. Switching out meats, fruits and vegetables for sweetened milk is a terrible idea. But that doesn't make sugar unhealthy. It simply makes low-nutrient diets paired with a caloric excess unhealthy. You'd have the same problems if 33% of your calories came from straight oil - low nutrient-per-calorie intake paired with a caloric surplus is never good regardless of source.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 02-28-2013 at 01:36 PM.
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  5. #25
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    ChocoTaco, Well I must disagree with you about the fear about Aspartame, but I see no reason to take that discussion here, just let me say that there are no documentation to my knowledge that states that it is unhealthy, au contraire it is one of the most researched food products, and all scientific authorities agrees that it is harmless.

    On the issue of sugar I don't believe it is "toxic", just that it is a good idea to limit it for several reasons and as you indirectly says yourself, that it tends to replace better calories..

  6. #26
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    Choose wisely oh Primal people:

    A. Eat moar sugar
    B. Eat moar asparatame
    C. NONE OF THE FREAKING ABOVE! SHIT AINT GOOD FOR YOU!

  7. #27
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    I likes my milk straight from the teet. I get mine here .... http://applefamilyfarm.wordpress.com...e-family-farm/ Get a gallon for $8 since I own a cow . And my kids prefer it without added sugar or aspartame.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    See, this to me is terrible. Not only are you tricking your children to overconsume, you're doing it with a toxic carcinogen. You're implying a chemical is healthier than sugar, which is recognizable energy to the body. Sugar bears little difference from fat - they're largely empty calories. Honey is more nutritious than some isolated primal fats - like bacon grease, rendered lard, various nut and seed oils - it's ridiculous to assert that sugar is some unhealthy thing because there is no causative evidence to support it, and calling it worse than Splenda...that's just wild.


    There is zero causative evidence that sugar is unhealthy.

    Grains are unhealthy because they are rich in lectins, anti-nutrients and inflammatory proteins (like gluten, avenin, zein, etc).

    Vegetable oils are unhealthy because they are rich in oxidized PUFA - rancid fats that create free radicals in the body upon ingestion.

    Chemicals are unhealthy because they aren't food. They're chemicals. They don't belong in the body.

    Why are sugars unhealthy? They don't contain anti-nutrients. They don't contain lectins. They are stable under heat, air and light. They store in the tissues as saturated and omega-9 monounsaturated fats, not polyunsaturated fats (unlike oils rich in PUFA - lard, poultry fat, nuts and seeds, which are considered Paleo). Exactly where does this logic that sugar is unhealthy come from? Fruit sugar has been shown to be protective to diabetes.

    The Advanced Glycation End Product, N-(Carboxymethyl)lysine, Is a Product of both Lipid Peroxidation and Glycoxidation Reactions





    Ray Peat breaks it down here:



    Sugar is very stable in the body and doesn't oxidize like PUFA-rich fats do. There is nothing harmful about glucose. It is so essential that your body has over millennia evolved multiple ways to create glucose in its absence - it is so essential, it'll consume its own muscles, organs and bones to get it! Fructose has many advantages as it increases CO2 during cellular respiration while having a minimal effect on insulin - that means you can eat carbohydrate with a very low tendency to store fat with the greatest increase of carbohydrate-induced TEF. It sends your thyroid into overdrive. You'll probably never find a fat fruitarian. Starch is finally getting some good press in the Paleo/Primal community - and I'm thankful for that - but it creates a comparatively massive surge of insulin, so it's more likely to be turned into body fat than equal calories from sugar. I try to keep starch limited to after workouts because I know it's going to glycogen rather than my waistline. Fruit is fair game regardless of activity level.

    Sugar is empty calories in many cases, so displacing real food for it is a problem. Switching out meats, fruits and vegetables for sweetened milk is a terrible idea. But that doesn't make sugar unhealthy. It simply makes low-nutrient diets paired with a caloric excess unhealthy. You'd have the same problems if 33% of your calories came from straight oil - low nutrient-per-calorie intake paired with a caloric surplus is never good regardless of source.

    This should be read by everyone including Mark Sisson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    ChocoTaco, Well I must disagree with you about the fear about Aspartame, but I see no reason to take that discussion here, just let me say that there are no documentation to my knowledge that states that it is unhealthy, au contraire it is one of the most researched food products, and all scientific authorities agrees that it is harmless.

    On the issue of sugar I don't believe it is "toxic", just that it is a good idea to limit it for several reasons and as you indirectly says yourself, that it tends to replace better calories..
    No, they say it is relatively harmless in small doses. Big difference.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    This should be read by everyone including Mark Sisson.

    No, they say it is relatively harmless in small doses. Big difference.
    You are wrong, do your homework and check it up...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I likes my milk straight from the teet. I get mine here .... Farm Market on the Apple Family Farm | Apple Family Farm Get a gallon for $8 since I own a cow . And my kids prefer it without added sugar or aspartame.
    I bet that your kids haven't even tried aspartame in their milk yet! Kids loves everything sweet, so I calculate that if some added Splenda makes them drink more milk and less sugary soft drinks and other sweets, then it gives total health benefits! My kids are in perfect health I can assure...

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