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  1. #401
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    Primal Fuel
    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    I don't think overeating is a good thing. I think we all should just eat as much as our natural appetite's ask for and eat the most nutritious, protein-rich and natural foods possible to do so (i.e. not wine and chocolate). I've come to the conclusion that chronic undereating causes a lot of long-term problems. But chronic overeating is not the answer. Restoring normal appetite control is the answer.
    This!!

    And if you have been under eating for awhile your body will tell you to over eat until its happy. Then it'll balance out..it's all about learning YOUR body and what works for it. Nothing is one size fits all and people seem to over think things when it comes to nutrition. Shutting your mind off and listening to your body will be the best thing you've ever done.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Restoring normal appetite control is the answer.
    How do you do that?

    That's the purpose of the whole experiment... healing issues with food and restoring natural metabolism so I can eat three solid meals a day. I know it's an insane way to approach it, but the other approach I tried for 13 years (restricting my appetite, then binging) hasn't quite worked... Don't know if this will either, but at least it's a different approach for once...
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    I don't think overeating is a good thing. I think we all should just eat as much as our natural appetite's ask for and eat the most nutritious, protein-rich and natural foods possible to do so (i.e. not wine and chocolate). I've come to the conclusion that chronic undereating causes a lot of long-term problems. But chronic overeating is not the answer. Restoring normal appetite control is the answer.
    +1

    My n=1 is that patience is key. I do think that there are many levels of "re-programming" to do for many women. Even for me, who has not done the yo-yo diet thing.

    I do think that a week of over-eating whatever you want (Primal stuff) can help shift the restriction programming, but I definitely would not choose to do it for the purpose of re-nourishing the body. It takes time to rebuild tissues/enzymes, hormones, etc & force-feeding isn't going to speed up that process.

    Good sleep, sufficient D3 and excellent Primal food will do it, but it does take months, maybe years--I don't think there is any way of getting around this. Lots of slow movement (1-2 hours of walking for me) has been the best metabolism booster ever.

    I have been Primal almost 3 years and it's taken most of that time to re-regulate my hunger, eating nutrient-dense foods (including lots of liver, bone broth, etc.) I am 50, so not assuming that any of what I say is true for any of you, but hoping my experience might be helpful.

    First, I had to get over carb/sugar/chocolate cravings. Magnesium helped a lot with that.

    Then I needed to stop thinking I needed 3 meals a day. Fortunately, my DH & I established early on that we don't need to sit down to meals together--this has made a HUGE difference in giving myself permission to eat only when hungry. Now two meals and a snack does the job most days. I eat as much as I want.

    Then I needed to drop the idea that I was starving myself if I only wanted a small amount of food (or that children in China would starve if I didn't clean my plate!) Lots of old mental chatter! Sometimes I eat a LOT, but not often, since I have a sedentary job & don't need a lot of calories.

    I still eat sometimes when I "think" I should, rather than when I am hungry, but that seems to be rare these days.

    My temps are high, no perimenopausal symptoms, good sleep and finally just an inch away from my preferred waist size.
    Last edited by Dragonfly; 03-20-2013 at 09:54 AM.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    I don't think overeating is a good thing. I think we all should just eat as much as our natural appetite's ask for and eat the most nutritious, protein-rich and natural foods possible to do so (i.e. not wine and chocolate). I've come to the conclusion that chronic undereating causes a lot of long-term problems. But chronic overeating is not the answer. Restoring normal appetite control is the answer.
    I don't think that anyone here is advocating chronic overeating(at least I hope not!). The overeating/refeeding being talked about here is to re-regulate systems that have been deregulated because of chronic restriction and provide enough fuel to repair the damage done to the body during those times of chronic restriction.

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDF View Post
    I don't think that anyone here is advocating chronic overeating(at least I hope not!). The overeating/refeeding being talked about here is to re-regulate systems that have been deregulated because of chronic restriction and provide enough fuel to repair the damage done to the body during those times of chronic restriction.
    Yes, thank you! I "over ate" for about a week, it has been to appetite ever since then.

    As for all of this taking time to heal... Yes, I'm aware. I have been eating primal, nutrient dense food for 7 years. Supplementing with D3, magnesium, iodine and CLO. Before that I didn't eat bad either, still lots of good foods. I've never eaten a SAD diet outside of craving binges brought on by extreme calorie deprivation. I also sleep 8-10 hours a night in the dark. This is NOT a problem of not eating nutrient dense food, not sleeping well, not supplementing correctly or not giving it some time. Calories are a nutrient too and that is by far the greatest nutrient my body has been missing.

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontwisst View Post
    I didn't track consistently, but the few times I plugged a sample day's menu into a calculator, it'd be in the neighbourhood of 20-45g carbs. I first started out on a LC plan in May 2011 and it really helped me lose weight - 45lbs, give or take. Then the weight loss stopped, and other problems started appearing...the most apparent and worst of which was severe dehydration (caused by overhydrating myself) and crazy leg cramping; I'd have little fluttery muscle tics in my lower legs constantly (no shit, all day every day) and would be up trying to stretch horrifying leg cramps out (not just calf muscles but hams, quads, hips, you name it) up to a dozen times a night. So, obviously, my sleep had gone all to hell, too.

    I shifted gears and switched to a primal WOE after reading PB in May 2012. I never noticed a great improvement in how I felt or looked; my weight didn't go anywhere, my energy didn't change - I wasn't going to be writing in a Friday Success Story. But I felt better about how I was eating, in that it was real, unprocessed foods; I don't plan to change that going forward, either. But I was still stuck to the LC dogma and kept my intake to around 1400-1600cal/day and things have just been going downhill.

    Right now I'm trying to figure out what's causing full-body water retention (10+lbs worth, it's been about 10 months since it started). I have several hypothyroid symptoms (low body temp, cold hands/feet, dry skin, hair and nails, fatigue/low energy, very pale). I have gained back all but about 15lbs of the weight I dropped going LC. I have had all sorts of bloodwork and lab tests, neuro assessments and an ultrasound of my heart to try and determine what's out of whack, and so far, no answers as all the tests have come back normal.

    In doing more reading and research (and the timing was convenient with PaleoMom starting this thread around the same time), I've come to figure my metabolism is just way out of whack and I need to do what I can to fix it. Which has consisted of eating a ton of food every day (not tracking, don't care - just keeping myself damn full all day long), taking as much downtime as my life will allow and not giving a damn that the scale is going up right now.

    Maybe my experience is extreme, or out of the ordinary, but I don't think it's that unusual, given the amount of information I've come across from others who've found themselves in this spot. I have no doubt that LC/VLC/ketosis works wonders for many people out there...I just know that it's not right for me.

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go make some chicken curry for dinner, with a giant f*cking pot of rice to go along with.
    Oh jeez!
    Sounds terrible!! I've actually had opposite symptoms of yours, my freezing hands are warmer than they were before. If things start to get worse I will certainly eat more carbs.
    Thank you for the help

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoMom View Post
    My hips and thighs went up from where I started but haven't gone past where I was in the past at around 138 even though now I'm at 143.6. They only went up maybe a 1 and 1.5 cm. My waist is bigger and my breasts for sure. Hubby actually thinks I look awesome and isn't wanting anything to come back off. Gotta love him.
    +1 to Paleomom's dude!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    When did you start Primal, what carry over problems do you have from your previous life.

    There are many discussions about those that did well on VLC for 3-4 months, then it all crashed and their house of cards came down, just like any other dieting regime.

    Most people come here because they have problems, so if for whatever reason you want to go VLC my opinion is:
    Based on all primal food intake, good exercise, stress management and lots of fun.
    1 month at 200g
    2 months at 150g
    3 months at 100g
    6 months at 50 g

    The 50 g stage is critical in my eyes as that really is the borderline area.
    If you can do this 12 months with no problems, then start to gradually wean down further if you feel the need to do so.
    I started primal about 3 weeks ago and I estimate my old carb intake was about 200g. I am experimenting with VLC and carb reloads now, I'll see how it goes thank you

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDF View Post
    I don't think that anyone here is advocating chronic overeating(at least I hope not!). The overeating/refeeding being talked about here is to re-regulate systems that have been deregulated because of chronic restriction and provide enough fuel to repair the damage done to the body during those times of chronic restriction.
    Word It's only overfeeding compared to what we're told we should consume. It's not force feeding.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  10. #410
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    Interesting... How does your definition vary from the "cut folks"? Now that I think of it, I've noticed that my calve muscles are looking way more defined as well... prob the same reason. Everything else looks the same (or bigger )
    Dunno if it is relevant now that thread run away a page ahead, but cut folks have very tight look, you can see the muscle firm surface under the skin. My 'definition' on the upper part of the RA (and on the thigh) reads like a soft 'buldge' the effect being soft due to the layer of fat over it. I believe it is described as a 'smooth' look like body builders are supposed to have off-season.

    Yeah, I am filling my bras as well again. Boob fat the first to go on me. And, yeah, my hubby is happy too. I personally don't see what's so great about big breasts, so I've never regretted seeing them go. Clothes fit so much better without much mass jiggling about.

    Also, there is something exceedingly weird happening for the past 3 days - I get persistent metallic/blood taste in my mouth. Please, tell me I am not going in ketosis ??? I stop controlling calories, eat like 200 g carbs a day, 3x a day with 5-7 hours between meals, switch from heavy lifting to insane-crazy number of reps lighter lifting in X-Fit WODs, and I go in ketosis when I could not get there after a month on <30 g carb and limited caloric intake? That just doesn't make sense. Please, tell me I should just brush my teeth more often.... I am like tempted to get the strips.
    Last edited by Leida; 03-21-2013 at 06:13 AM.
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