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  1. #161
    eKatherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beets View Post
    Although, one obvious question that article doesn't answer is: if you eat too many calories, won't you gain weight?

    This is listed in the "questions raised by Taubes' hypothesis" section but it does the piece a disservice to leave it unaddressed. I in general find the piece compelling but something I was taught about reporting is: never raise a question you don't answer. And that's a pretty big one.
    Here is my interpretation. I presume you are rephrasing the first question on the list, which is actually:
    “If I eat ‘too many’ calories, don’t they still have to go somewhere? If they don’t go into my fat, where do they go?”
    I would say that first there is a big presupposition built into that question, that "eating too many calories" is an independent act entirely unconnected with any bodily process. It presumes that the dieter made a conscious decision to eat those calories, rather than consuming them as a response to triggers sent out from the black box as a result of biochemical processes that we are not aware are happening on a continual basis. The article suggests that we overeat and stay fat because we are fat, because our fat cells demand to be maintained and even increased as a result of hormones that affect our appetite.

    This is the opposite of the common assumption that we get fat from consuming excess calories and stay fat as a result of continuing to consume excess calories. And if those fat people would just stop consuming excess calories, dammit, they'd easily drop off those pounds!

    So the question here comes down to which is the natural process.

    But another issue that is not mentioned here is that while many thin people who overeat will not be hungry again until they have burned up the excess calories per usual, others actually become hyperthermic when they overeat and burn off excess calories like that. And in the process they may get restless and do something that burns off even more calories, even something as simple as going for a walk after dinner.
    Last edited by eKatherine; 03-03-2013 at 08:27 AM.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    To the people that eat a lot, and stay relatively low carb (the +/- 100 gram type, not ketosis), what are you eating and do you track it?

    I did an experiment yesterday and ate "a lot". I ended up around 1700 calories and can't imagine a primal way to easily get up to 2200 calories. I can imagine a high carb way.
    Breakfast was 3 eggs, bacon, asparagus, coffee with full fat coconut milk
    lunch was a banana, blueberries, roast beef ( lot of it)
    dinner was a steak, cauliflower in coconut oil, and a salad with dressing and avocado.

    I thought FOR CERTAIN I was going to be over 2000 calories.

    I just wonder if big primal eaters overestimate calories? And if not, how do you afford it?
    Maybe I will try tracking myself. I've been told that it's really very common for women to overestimate the calories they take in. I've even had someone tell me that if I thought I had eaten close to 3000 calories in a day I'd be wrong because in all their time as a nutritional consultant they'd never seen a woman who did that without a lot of coaching.

    Anyway, what I have been eating lately:
    Breakfast
    1 large boneless skinless chicken breast or if I'm not as hungry, half
    1 sweet or white potato

    Lunch
    Another serving of meat (either the other half of the breast or a can of salmon or I'll buy some Asian buffet teriyaki chicken.)
    A serving of mixed vegetables from the Asian buffet or another potato

    Dinner
    Another serving of meat or fish
    More vegetables and/or potatoes

    Bad naughty stuff that keeps me fat:
    Chocolate (damn Valentine's day, damn my personal weakness)
    Wine (damn those convenient boxes)
    Cheese (I'm eating much less of this these days, thankfully)

    Snacks that may or may not contribute to my fatness:
    Desserts made of nuts, dates, seeds and coconut
    Bananas

    I think that if I would just quit with the chocolate and wine I would probably lose weight even if I ate more meat, vegetables and potatoes. I assume this is a generous amount of calories because it's well over the "meat as a condiment" or "meat the size of your palm" portion, plus it's a generous portion of meat 3x a day, something I've never done before. There's no added fat though, so perhaps the calories aren't that high (in the real food anyway). It's a lot of volume, though. I have to stress that these mutant chicken breasts I buy are enormous. Cheap, too, which is how I can afford it. The top sirloin I buy sometimes is really cheap, too. Not grass-fed or pastured. I save the good stuff for dinner.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 180 x 2. Current Deadlift: 230 x 2

  3. #163
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    It might be the potatoes...

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    I think that if I would just quit with the chocolate and wine I would probably lose weight even if I ate more meat, vegetables and potatoes.
    There is an aversive therapy where the therapist would assign a client who felt that certain foods were problematic the task of only consuming those foods, and consuming them to an excess. Being not only permitted to consume only wine and chocolate but required to would result in your getting sick of those very quickly.

    I'm not suggesting that this is necessarily appropriate, or that you do it. But it is an interesting concept.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    To the people that eat a lot, and stay relatively low carb (the +/- 100 gram type, not ketosis), what are you eating and do you track it?

    I did an experiment yesterday and ate "a lot". I ended up around 1700 calories and can't imagine a primal way to easily get up to 2200 calories. I can imagine a high carb way.
    Breakfast was 3 eggs, bacon, asparagus, coffee with full fat coconut milk
    lunch was a banana, blueberries, roast beef ( lot of it)
    dinner was a steak, cauliflower in coconut oil, and a salad with dressing and avocado.

    I thought FOR CERTAIN I was going to be over 2000 calories.

    I just wonder if big primal eaters overestimate calories? And if not, how do you afford it?
    Since starting this I have been getting in 2900-3400 calories a day of primal food. It has required eating to the point of "I CAN'T eat any more" and as soon as there is a bit of room in there I top off the tank. It is uncomfortable for sure but I feel like it is what I need. The interesting thing is how I am finding myself getting hungrier and hungrier and wanting to eat more even when I feel so full I could burst. I have read about those recovering from eating disorders have this sort of excessive hunger when the body starts to get the message that you are going to feed it.

    UPDATE ON PROGRESS:
    My body temp was 98.3 digital/oral which is up from 97.6. My weight has gone up everyday from about 134 to 140.6 yesterday. Today though it went down .2 lbs. I also don't seem fatter in any way. My body feels firmer, like the fat is less inflamed and sort of taught and my stomach is bigger from bloating and massive amounts of food in my digestive tract, but when I pinch the fat at my navel it is the same or very close to how it has always been.

    Yesterday, I was massively tired and spent the day resting as much as I could. I find it interesting that my first day of not gaining almost a pound and even losing a bit was right after that tired day. Perhaps a turning point? I have not had the energy to continue my weight training since doing this, I just want to listen to my body and let it rest and rebuild as much as it wants. Also, the bloating and stomach girth I mentioned in the above paragraph has mostly gone away today.

  6. #166
    PaleoMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    There is an aversive therapy where the therapist would assign a client who felt that certain foods were problematic the task of only consuming those foods, and consuming them to an excess. Being not only permitted to consume only wine and chocolate but required to would result in your getting sick of those very quickly.

    I'm not suggesting that this is necessarily appropriate, or that you do it. But it is an interesting concept.
    Yes, please don't actually do this with wine and chocolate! I can't imagine how sick that could make a person! I also doubt the wine and chocolate is what is giving you trouble. Perhaps if the chocolate was milk/high sugar...

    sbhikes: I do hope you track your food at least a few days so we can know with more clarity how to compare your intake with your experiences. I feel like the more data we collect on each other the more we can help everyone to put this battle behind us.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    To the people that eat a lot, and stay relatively low carb (the +/- 100 gram type, not ketosis), what are you eating and do you track it?

    I did an experiment yesterday and ate "a lot". I ended up around 1700 calories and can't imagine a primal way to easily get up to 2200 calories. I can imagine a high carb way.
    Breakfast was 3 eggs, bacon, asparagus, coffee with full fat coconut milk
    lunch was a banana, blueberries, roast beef ( lot of it)
    dinner was a steak, cauliflower in coconut oil, and a salad with dressing and avocado.

    I thought FOR CERTAIN I was going to be over 2000 calories.

    I just wonder if big primal eaters overestimate calories? And if not, how do you afford it?
    Thankyou for tracking your day, it gives me an indication. I feel like I eat plenty but I never count calories. I would eat similar to what you do, probably with some extra nuts along the way. ie

    Breakfast: Omelette (butter, mushrooms, a little bacon, two eggs, some milk). Lunch: Lamb spare rib, green beans with butter, coleslaw of carrot, cheese and toasted sesame seeds with dressing of lemon juice. Several slices of watermelon. Dinner: Takeaways (potatoes in nasty oil; one piece of fish, batter removed; one pineapple fritter, batter removed; tomato sauce).

    So even though this was one of my least primal days, I don't think eaten too many calories or missed out on too many veges.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoMom View Post
    Since starting this I have been getting in 2900-3400 calories a day of primal food.
    When did you start, when you started the thread? I have been trying to increase for a couple of months and still not up to BMR
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

  9. #169
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    Since starting heavy lifting and spending time on other forums as well, I've been making sure to eat over my BMR, but under maintenance. I lost my first 60lbs the CW starvation calorie-reduction way, so I'm determined to do it right this time around, and be way more fit when I'm done.

    It's all still mostly primal, exceptions being some protein powder and "evil" rice krispies once in a while I've stopped micromanaging my foods, and not entirely concerned about whether things are primal or not anymore. I just eat good food. I pay more for my meat, eggs, and dairy to get higher quality. That's about it.

    I eat more carbs, so I'll have potatoes and rice along with my meals. Meats are typically bottom round roast, tuna and salmon (taking a break from chicken). Mayo and relish for the tuna and salmon. I'll put coconut oil and sour cream on my potatoes, or eat my rice with a couple of eggs. Greek yogurt with some honey and coconut thrown in maybe. Frozen and blended banana with some smashed chocolate chips in for dessert.

    It tends to settle around 1800-1900 calories, and that's because I'm counting and trying to keep it under 2k. My BMR is somewhere in the 1500s.

    I'm not IFing, which makes it easier to eat more unfortunately... but for now it's out of the equation. Fats are really what brings the calorie count up for me, and therefore what I have to watch, so when I see people struggling to eat over x number, I can't even imagine that anymore... But, if it works for them, great.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    When did you start, when you started the thread? I have been trying to increase for a couple of months and still not up to BMR
    I started exactly 1 week ago, which is a day or two before I started the thread. Just to be clear this is WORK. I'm not just eating til I feel full. I'm eating until I feel quite uncomfortable and maintaining that uncomfortable feeling all day. I'm starting to feel like it is paying off though. I don't know if this is right or not, but my thought was I don't want to drag this out. I would rather go through this discomfort, giving my body ALL the extra nutrition it needs right from the beginning so that I don't have to wait as long for it to heal, and to get the message that the food is coming and the famine is now over. As for temperature gain, I'm not putting too much excitement into it going up at this point due to where I'm at in my monthly cycle. If it is still high after I menstrate, then I'll be excited

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