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Thread: Is it really love if it's unrequited?

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  1. #1
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    Is it really love if it's unrequited?

    I just got back from "Les Miserable". Unrequited love is one of its themes.

    Made me think - is "love" really love if it's not expressed and experienced two-ways? If someone doesn't love you in return, then do you truly know who they are enough to love them? Is it possible to know someone's soul from a distance, or is it a projection of your ideals and fears? Is unrequited love: love, infatuation, or just self-sabotage?

    Thoughts on a postcard please
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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    I'm in the boring and unromantic school of thought of this shit's all brain chemistry evolved over millions of years to help trick our bodies into doing things that optimize the ability of our genes to replicate themselves. No "ghost-in-the-machine," no "soul," no "soul mate," no "true love" in the Princess Bride sense. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    I'm in the boring and unromantic school of thought of this shit's all brain chemistry evolved over millions of years to help trick our bodies into doing things that optimize the ability of our genes to replicate themselves. No "ghost-in-the-machine," no "soul," no "soul mate," no "true love" in the Princess Bride sense. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
    Well... if that were the case, wouldn't unrequited love go against everything you deem real? Surely "love" that had no possibility of actualisation / actualiZation would be detrimental to genetic replication, and therefore not congruous with our evolved brain chemisty?

    Btw, there was a thread a few weeks back (I think about whether grains had a deeper meaning or something) where you gave your outlook that genesis of life was a result of DNA trying to evolve. I meant to say it at the time, but I thought it was really succinct. A lot of the time people just use different language, but the underlying outlook is actually the same. When I say "soul" I really mean "energy" or organic matter: the only intention of which is to reach a more evolved state.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Well... if that were the case, wouldn't unrequited love go against everything you deem real? Surely "love" that had no possibility of actualisation / actualiZation would be detrimental to genetic replication, and therefore not congruous with our evolved brain chemisty?
    Sexual selection's a bitch. There are examples all over the animal kingdom where one sex (usually the male) get really invested in competing for the affection of a woman (sometimes staking his life on it).

    Natural selection and following the best interests of the genetic material itself gets quirky once there are two sexes (and there aren't in lots of cases). It gets even weirder in the case of ants and bees where there are workers and queens, but the workers share the same DNA.

    Sexual selection is actually a really interesting, separate field of natural selection that I'm probably not knowledgeable enough to say much more about without getting myself tripped up. Maybe someone better educated in the field can fix up my minor flubs and help me explain what I'm trying to get across.

    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Btw, there was a thread a few weeks back (I think about whether grains had a deeper meaning or something) where you gave your outlook that genesis of life was a result of DNA trying to evolve. I meant to say it at the time, but I thought it was really succinct. A lot of the time people just use different language, but the underlying outlook is actually the same. When I say "soul" I really mean "energy" or organic matter: the only intention of which is to reach a more evolved state.
    Thanks for the compliment. I was basically paraphrasing Dawkins, possibly even vaguely plaigiarizing him from fuzzy memory. I can't claim the succinctness of the explanation as my own in the least.

    In fact, I don't think anything intends to reach a "more evolved" state, but rather that those things that replicate with near-perfect fidelity, along with sufficient fecundity (sowing of the "wild oats") tend to stay represented and become a gene pool. And genes that build "survival machines" (Dawkins again) better suited to doing so tend to gain representation in the gene pool over successive generations at the expense of things that do so less well.

    So the "love" feelingsplex, to me, is a trick our genes build our brains to play on us in order to increase their chances of making it to the future. And no, I don't mean that a bunch of nucleotides sit around plotting, but the ones that are coded this way tend to out-survive the ones that are coded any other way.

    Now I'm way above my own head though.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Well... if that were the case, wouldn't unrequited love go against everything you deem real? Surely "love" that had no possibility of actualisation / actualiZation would be detrimental to genetic replication, and therefore not congruous with our evolved brain chemisty?
    Because, of course, what is important is what we glean from Musicals (!) ... and pseudo-science that misses the point.

    It would never be worth trying to see what the philosophers have to say. Nor should we interested in what Wagner, whose Tristan and Isolde is perhaps the most intense meditation on erotic love in our art -- but, golly, it's not a musical -- has to say in dramatic (and musical) form. Nor would it be worth considering what, for example, Dickens in Our Mutual Friend had shown.

    This, I'm afraid, is where we, as a civilization, are headed. Triviality posing as knowledge.

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    There are plenty of people who obsess about food in the same way stalkers obsess about the person who is the object of their fixation. But no matter how much we love chocolate, it can never love us back.

  7. #7
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    If we're talking about romantic love, I would say yes. But seeing as unrequited is the only kind I've ever felt, I'm probably talking out my ass.

    EDIT: I mean, I've got nothing to compare it to. But I felt it. At risk of sounding confrontational when I don't really mean to be, who is anyone to tell me I didn't feel what I felt?
    Last edited by Violette_R; 02-21-2013 at 06:13 PM.

  8. #8
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    I "love" my laptop. Or is it infatuation? Or self-sabotage?
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    I "love" my laptop. Or is it infatuation? Or self-sabotage?
    Pairbonding instinct.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    I "love" my laptop. Or is it infatuation? Or self-sabotage?
    Quote Originally Posted by EagleRiverDee View Post
    I would say absolutely that love doesn't have to be returned to be love.

    A parent loves their baby from the moment they are born- we have no idea at what point the baby loves the parent back. It's still love.

    A person can love another person- in a romantic sense or not- and the love is genuine and real whether it's returned or not. Or how about after someone dies? They can no longer love you back- does it mean you all of a sudden don't love them anymore? I think not.
    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    Not true for me. I did not love my child the moment they were born, but I did love my child the moment they were born. I guess it depends on how love is defined.
    THere's different kinds of love. Paternal (parents for children and vica versa), fraternal (siblings, friends) and romantic. And umm... of course, the love we all have for inanimate objects..!

    Sure, love can be unrequited with friends and family, but I was referring to romantic love.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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