Why the harshness about starches? page 2

[Nivanthe]

are they simply overdoing the carbs (since starchy vegetables are more carb-dense, thus they need to be more carefully counted)?

It just depends. Some people don't need to keep their carb-level at ketosis levels (-50), even if they're trying to lose weight. At the end of the day, it's also about the total calories you're eating.

I eat them on both training days and rest days.

[Leida]

I think the whole concept that unless you are a star athlete you can't touch carrots or need to view bananas as your ticket to replacing Shamu next performance is incorrect. Imo, what you need to watch for is the levels of satiation and the desired body response (fat loss, muscle gain, whatever). Everyone is so individual. I don't satiate on the fat cooked with the meal and fatty meats (though I well might feel like throwing up at the sight of eggs with bacon, I doubt it's a healthy weight-loss strategy). I go suicidal if I don't eat fruit daily, and starches when the body requests them - if I don't I end up binging non-stopped on fat and protein, and nothing fills me up. I respond better to specific scheduling in carb intake (evening) and taking my fats separately to keep fuller. My blood sugar got destabilized when I tried to eat things like you normally would after I ate fruit, but when I started taking fats separately, lo and behold, I can have fruit without shakes and appetite-rollacoaster. And, I am not an athletic wonder by any means. For the longest times I thought maybe eating as I 'should' is a good idea, as it's o contrary to my nature, but it only backfires. If you want squash, eat squash. Whenever. I go for a few days in a row without wanting any starches, then I can't get enough of them. Same with meat. I think the body knows better than the bestest theory.

[Zach]

Sissons older posts are carbophobic to say the least. Also his carb curve is just plain wrong and outdated.

[aimlow]

Sissons older posts are carbophobic to say the least. Also his carb curve is just plain wrong and outdated.

Zach- what is a more updated/ accurate carb "curb"/mentality?

[Leida]

I am not Zach, but I think 'normal' carb 'curve' doesn't exist. Normal, imo, is enjoying vegetables without weighing it, and having a whole fruit as a serving when you feel like it - unless you want no more while you are eating it. Normal is not 'blackberries are better than peaches' so I will eat blackberries, even though I am dying for a peach. Normal is eating when you are hungry, and stopping when you are full. Normal is having a potato if you crave starch and not worrying if you have lifted 2 hours prior to that. Normal is... eating fresh food that satisfies your appetite....

[Zach]

Zach- what is a more updated/ accurate carb "curb"/mentality?

Leida said it well and i agree. There is no suh thing. Different societies ate varying amouts of carbs throughout history and im sure it varied greatly day to day. They didnt worry about which macronutrient their calories came from and neither should you. Instead think about the quality of the food you are eating.

What do Sisson, Wolf, Moore and thousands of followers have in common? They all jumped from a high processed carb, junk food diet to a low carb paleo diet with out ever testing the middle ground and vilifying something they never tried. Luckily more and more people including big names i the community are seeing error they made and coming around to a more reasonable approach to healthy eating.

[aimlow]

Leida said it well and i agree. There is no suh thing. Different societies ate varying amouts of carbs throughout history and im sure it varied greatly day to day. They didnt worry about which macronutrient their calories came from and neither should you. Instead think about the quality of the food you are eating.

What do Sisson, Wolf, Moore and thousands of followers have in common? They all jumped from a high processed carb, junk food diet to a low carb paleo diet with out ever testing the middle ground and vilifying something they never tried. Luckily more and more people including big names i the community are seeing error they made and coming around to a more reasonable approach to healthy eating.

Awesome. I totally buy this and (not that I am a wizard like Sisson et al) have spent much of my adult life subscribing to the all or nothing mentality- either low carb or crap. I am finally really starting to understand how to listen to my body AND eat well. (I hope)

[Leida]

So do I. I went through so many cycles of doing the bestest thing that gives the most pluses as the DnD world put it... and well, my body and mind always fought back the artificial restrictions on anything and in the end it was more harm than good. I tried to dedicate my life to surviving on the latest bestest macro breakdown of only the bestest foods packing the bestest micros (and carb content) and being right down to a percentage point. I admit to gaming with FitDay to match 15% of fat exactly at one time and 25 total grams of carbs at another time and so on. And I consider it a mistake.

[s-piper]

What do Sisson, Wolf, Moore and thousands of followers have in common? They all jumped from a high processed carb, junk food diet to a low carb paleo diet with out ever testing the middle ground and vilifying something they never tried.

There are exceptions, but many Paleo/Primal advocates were health nuts to begin with. I don't know about Rob Wolf, but Mark Sisson was a marathon runner, triathlete, and personal trainer before Primal. I have a hunch he knew that Spam, Wonderbread, and Twinkies were bad for you.
Jimmy Moore and many others who are famous for advocating low-carb (which is similar but not the same) like the Hellers, the Eames, and, of course, Atkins struggled with obesity for years. Yes, they probably did become obese largely on high processed carb and junk food, but the suggestion that people, authors or normal folks, who lost weight with low-carb or Paleo/Primal only ever ate a high junk food diet or a low-carb diet, and never tried anything in between is really ludicrous! What person who has a weight problem hasn't gotten the advice from doctors, nurses, nutritionists, or well meaning relatives to eat a diet low or even absent in animal fats, and high in whole grains? My guess would be no one.
If that diet works for you that's great, although, based on the scientific literature, you're a minority.
If you want to do Primal with more carbs and find it works for you, that's great.

However, some people, especially ones who are prone to metabolic syndrome can't handle eating a lot of carb. It results in cravings and weight gain.
I wish it wasn't the case. To be honest, I'd prefer a plate of big plate of pasta over a T-bone steak, but it's the genetic hand I was dealt so I have to work with it.

[Zach]

I completely disagree and dont believe anyone is just genetically predisposed to not be able to handle carbs. The way your mother ate during and post pregnancy (if breast feeding) and the choices she and maybe even a few generations before her made could have a role on your health and vitality but it was most likely the choices you made throughout life that got you to where you are now. I also believe that anyone can reverse their health without having to restrict a whole macronutriant.

Also yes Sisson ate like crap during his marathoning/pre paleo days, as did Wolf, Moore and many others.