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  1. #281
    Zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    A person will not starve without food before he have lost so much bodyfat that the body can't mobilize enough fat from stored adipose tissue, fast enough, and a massive breakdown of lean tissue including organs start to take place. Downregulation of metabolism will also not happen if the body has enough bodyfat, since the starvation mode is to protect the body when getting too lean. Yep, the CICO principle is still valid...
    Not when hormones are so messed up that these signals do not happen. Fat people can starve to death and a lot of fat people have very low metabolisms, that is why you see so many on crash diets and not losing any fat. You are completely wrong.

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Not when hormones are so messed up that these signals do not happen. Fat people can starve to death and a lot of fat people have very low metabolisms, that is why you see so many on crash diets and not losing any fat. You are completely wrong.
    Fat people that dies when dieting are usually messing up their electrolytes and water balance, or have other medical issues. Lots of stored bodyfat is a very good insurance against starving to death...

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Fat people that dies when dieting are usually messing up their electrolytes and water balance, or have other medical issues. Lots of stored bodyfat is a very good insurance against starving to death...
    It sure is.

    In general i disagree with CICO, mainly because it is impossible to place a fixed calorie number for anyone and say, eat more and gain, eat less and lose. It will vary greatly depending hundreds of factors. In a perfect world, one would never need to calorie count because the body would dispose of excess calories without needing to store them and regulate other processes when calories are deficient. When a person gains fat, there is almost always something wrong, be it environmental stress, hormone issues or something else.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    It sure is.

    In general i disagree with CICO, mainly because it is impossible to place a fixed calorie number for anyone and say, eat more and gain, eat less and lose. It will vary greatly depending hundreds of factors. In a perfect world, one would never need to calorie count because the body would dispose of excess calories without needing to store them and regulate other processes when calories are deficient. When a person gains fat, there is almost always something wrong, be it environmental stress, hormone issues or something else.
    Yes, people always gain weight because they are overeating, but if we ask WHY they overeat we will get lots of different answers; Some overeat because they get addicted to processed food, others because of stress or anxiety, others from hormonal imbalances, and others again simply because they enjoy eating etc, etc., ad infinitum... Making a good calorie budjet is almost impossible without also adjusting portions over the time, and most overweight people starting on a low carb diet from SAD will usually lose lots of weight by default without even counting calories before they stall, and then they must adjust down their portions and eat less to continue to lose more weight...

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    A person will not starve without food before he have lost so much bodyfat that the body can't mobilize enough fat from stored adipose tissue, fast enough, and a massive breakdown of lean tissue including organs start to take place. Downregulation of metabolism will also not happen if the body has enough bodyfat, since the starvation mode is to protect the body when getting too lean. Yep, the CICO principle is still valid...
    I didn't say the numbers don't stack, just that the rule fails, to produce the desired outcome, and I don't consider severe hunger, psychological torment through denial of food and possible longer term physiological and psychological damage as acceptable conditions just to prove one can lose weight by calorie restriction, i don't think any of those characteristics are markers of good health.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    I think people who frequent forums like this, start to believe that VLC diets are common and healthy but if you look at almost every culture, you will essentially find none who eat that way. The VLC population is a miniscule percent of the world population, people need to remember that.
    Every modern agricultural culture yes. Aren't those cultures the ones we are trying to avoid eating like? This isn't the "Modern Living in the Primal World" forum.
    "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

  7. #287
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    I didn't read through the thread... too long, but my first reaction is that dietary fat is the only thing that doesn't affect blood sugar. Going lowfat seems like the last thing you would want to do. Maybe you need to lower protein a bit more and up your fat. Nora Gedgaudas is a good resource for you right now. You can listen to some of her podcasts for great info.

  8. #288
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    I am not going to eat low fat. I have updated this thread a few times, but people don't seem to be reading it.

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayla2010 View Post
    I am not going to eat low fat. I have updated this thread a few times, but people don't seem to be reading it.
    Then don't.

    There's no need to eat low fat or low carb or high protein or whatever. In fact, I'd say you're probably better off with a kind of 33/33/33 approach.

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayla2010 View Post
    I am not going to eat low fat. I have updated this thread a few times, but people don't seem to be reading it.
    It's just another type of hijack, by the time you are at page 3, the OP has been forgotten, sometimes the entire topic and people don't bother even reading back, just post something related to current posts and sometimes the title and the OP is left wondering what relevance does any of this have and eventually it all fades. You've got 3,000+ posts, i'm sure you've seen it before.

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