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  1. #231
    Omni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itchy166 View Post
    Ketones can be used by my body as fuel (calories). If my body isn't very good at using ketones, or I am making ketones faster than my body can using them (they don't stay in my blodstream too long), I pee them out!!! (again, I KNOW this, because I MEASURE THEM COMING OUT!!!)
    Just clarifying, I'm not fully up with the ketone thing and have never bothered trying to measure or read a vast amount into the detail or specifics,

    but when you pee them out and can measure with a stick, isn't that the transitional stage and when you go into complete ketosis you really don't excrete them in your urine.

    just want to know as I read something along those lines, here I think it was.

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    You prove my point Gorbag.
    Yes. Proponents of CICO take it as equivalent to the analytic fact that you can only gain/lose if you ingest more/less energy than you expend. Opponents of CICO don't dispute this. "CICO is true but there are lots of interdependent factors" is precisely what the other side means when it says "CICO is too simple." It's not a substantial debate.

  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    Just clarifying, I'm not fully up with the ketone thing and have never bothered trying to measure or read a vast amount into the detail or specifics,

    but when you pee them out and can measure with a stick, isn't that the transitional stage and when you go into complete ketosis you really don't excrete them in your urine.

    just want to know as I read something along those lines, here I think it was.
    Yes, that is how I understand it as well. (although both my wife and I can detect them after seven weeks). The longer we eat this way, the better we will be at using ketones apparently. You can be in ketosis and have no ketones in your urine. I was just trying to point out limitations to the CI=CO theory.

    Here are some really good articles on ketosis:

    The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.Can your food make you fit? The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.
    Ketosis
    Ketosis

    The authors of these two blogs both stay in a almost permanent ketogenic state.

    Just a reminder before I get flamed, PB and Paleo in no way have to be as low-carb as what I eat. I eat this low because I naturally gravitate towards high-fat foods and away from tons of fruit and vegetables. I also have trouble staying Primal in some of the work settings I am in (I am often in work camps where I have no control at all over what is available), so I started IFing and supplementing MTC oils as strategies to skip meals when needed. Now I skip meals all of the time even when I am home, then eat large meals when I do eat.

    One more thing, I don't really give advice as to what others should eat. I really think that we are all different, and we should find an individual way to eat that suits our needs. This way is working very well for me. Some of what the CI=CO crowd is saying is valid, just incomplete. Calorie counting works for many people, and is a good starting point. Same thing with Primal/Paleo - it works for many people without counting anything, and is again a good starting point. I like to read lots and tweak things - its my nature.
    "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

  4. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by itchy166 View Post

    Calories In / Calories out says I should be increasing weight faster now than what I was gaining on a SAD diet, obviously something else is going on. I believe calories in / calories out is a simplistic and outdated theory. Obviously, a human body isn't a very good calorimeter, and why would it be? There is a hell of a lot more going on in my body than burning food in an oxygen chamber..
    That has been my experience as well. For me, weight gain comes from carbs. Eating primally, I don't even worry about calories.
    High Weight: 225
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    Primal Start Date: 11/26/2012

  5. #235
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    oh dear God

    I havent read this all, but I did read the first half dozen pages fairly well. And now I have a knot in my gut. I have been eating under my BMR for over a year, with the exception of maybe a dozen days.

    Weight loss is none existent anymore. And I still have plenty to lose. Changing macros hasnt helped. Changing calories hasnt helped. From low to even lower to not quite as low as before. Ugghh I start to think something is working again when I lose a pound, then gain a pound, lose a pound gain a pound. I am so happy to see the activity and then I realize I am not making any ground. Even now, I think I might be gaining ground but hard to tell because I added in activity. Now I read this don't eat below BMR thing. ugghhh

    Could trying so hard to be a good girl be my complete demise? I just wanna puke.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

  6. #236
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    Gopintos, it's really very easy depending on how much you have to lose:

    1. Eat between 0.5 and 1.0 pound of LEAN meat or fish per day.
    2. Eat as much raw or cooked fibrous vegetables as you like.
    3. Eat one spoonful of fish oil, one multivitamin, and one cube of broth.
    4. Drink unsweetened coffee, tea, or DietCoke, Icewater. A little lemonjuice or milk allowed.

    No counting of calories necessary, when you are leaning out you can start implementing starches and fruits back into your diet again...

  7. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Gopintos, it's really very easy depending on how much you have to lose:

    1. Eat between 0.5 and 1.0 pound of LEAN meat or fish per day.
    2. Eat as much raw or cooked fibrous vegetables as you like.
    3. Eat one spoonful of fish oil, one multivitamin, and one cube of broth.
    4. Drink unsweetened coffee, tea, or DietCoke, Icewater. A little lemonjuice or milk allowed.

    No counting of calories necessary, when you are leaning out you can start implementing starches and fruits back into your diet again...
    That still sounds under BMR.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

  8. #238
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    It's a wonder how in the world I ever even lost 70lbs.

    Just when I think I have this figured out, I realize I dont have a clue.
    Last edited by gopintos; 02-21-2013 at 01:36 PM.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

  9. #239
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    Gopintos, if you are still losing weight just continue to do what you are doing...

  10. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by itchy166 View Post
    Here are some really good articles on ketosis:

    The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.Can your food make you fit? The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.
    Ketosis
    Ketosis

    The authors of these two blogs both stay in a almost permanent ketogenic state.
    Have you looked at any of Stephen Phinneys work, he seems to be the King of Keto, done quite a bit of research in the area and particularly with atheletes, there was an video interview with him from the ancestral health symposium, google should find it pretty easy.

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