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  1. #221
    itchy166's Avatar
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    I don't care what the studies say. I used to eat a SAD diet, and when I tracked my calories closely eating many grains, seed oils, margarine, alcohol, skim milk, etc (Yes I tracked the alcohol too). My macros on a typical day:
    Day I drank (average twice per week):
    3200kcal
    30% Fat
    14% Protein
    23% Carbs
    33% Alcohol

    Days I didn't drink:
    2400kcal
    34% Fat
    27% Protein
    39% Carbs

    I was gaining on average 5lbs per year eating this way.

    Seven weeks ago, I gave up most dairy, all seed oils, legumes, sugar, alcohol, starchy vegetables, all grains. I added coconut oil, MTC's, cod liver oil, Vit D supplements. I now eat:

    3000-3100kcal per day
    70% Fat
    20% Protein
    10% Carbs

    As of today I have lost 13.3lbs. (And experienced many other health benefits). I am basically at the same activity level as before.

    Calories In / Calories out says I should be increasing weight faster now than what I was gaining on a SAD diet, obviously something else is going on. I believe calories in / calories out is a simplistic and outdated theory. Obviously, a human body isn't a very good calorimeter, and why would it be? There is a hell of a lot more going on in my body than burning food in an oxygen chamber..
    "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

  2. #222
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    Thank you NZprimalGwamma, emmie, eKatherine & Itchy166 for your insightful and nonjudgemental comments.

    Sometimes when I speak with the "calories in-calories out" theorists here, I feel like I'm sitting in the office of a ADA nutritionist.

    So your open-mindedness and sharing of your experience is much appreciated.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by itchy166 View Post
    ICalories In / Calories out says I should be increasing weight faster now than what I was gaining on a SAD diet, obviously something else is going on. I believe calories in / calories out is a simplistic and outdated theory.
    Well, you are wrong; there is no magic or sorcery going on in your body. Fluctuations in mental stress or anxiety may burn more or less calories over time, metabolic slowdown due to advanced age, physical activity etc. so it's a lot of factors in play, but the rock bottom of it all is calories in and calories out, there is no way to bypass that…
    Last edited by Gorbag; 02-20-2013 at 03:48 PM.

  4. #224
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    You prove my point Gorbag.

  5. #225
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    Maybe we should bleed these people. Cure them with mercury. Give them some Coca-cola (Cocaine). You cling to theory like it is truth.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Well you are wrong; there is no magic or sorcery going on in your body. Fluctuation in mental stress or anxiety etc. may burn more or less calories over time, metabolic slowdown due to advanced age, physical activity etc. so it's a lot of factors in play, but the rock bottom of it all is calories in and calories out, there is no way to bypass that…
    I don't think that there is any "magic" going on at all. There is a scientific explanation of course, but CI/CO is too simple to catch what's going on. Lets take a look:

    Before low-carb, I averaged 2628kcalories per day, and I gained 5lbs per year on average. So using your theory, (5lbs is 3500x5 kcal divided by 365 days), so I was eating approx 49 extra kcal per day.

    Seven weeks ago, I changed to lfhc, and I average 3050kcal per day and I have lost 13.3lbs. So again using your theory (13.3lbs is 3500x13.3 kcal divided by 43 days), so I have been eating approx 1082 to FEW kcal per day.

    Are you suggesting that I am burning 1082+49=1131 more calories a day with minimal changes in my activity level? By the way, your argument contradicts itself - if my metabolism was slowing down due to advancing age, I would be gaining even MORE weight.

    Like I said, simplistic and outdated CW. Calories in calories out is maybe a starting point at best.

    1082 calories for my height and weight:
    49min bicycle race without drafting
    4hours 20min walking dog
    1 hour 5min boxing in the ring
    2 hours 10min vigorous weightlifting

    I assure you, I have not added this much daily activity by a long shot. I have weight lifted on and off for years (so nothing new here). My job has gotten increasingly sedentary over the years (but I recently made an effort to do more). I bike MUCH less. And, I now walk maybe an hour a week.

    Do you think that maybe some foods take more ENERGY than others to digest fully? Or that different states, like ketosis which I am in for example, have different efficiencies? Or that intermittent fasting might change my hormonal balance in a way that helps with fat loss? Or that vitamin D has been shown to help with fat loss? Or that omega 3 has been shown to reduce belly fat? Or that MCT may help with fat loss? Or that saturated fat has been shown to promote fat loss? And that vitamin k has been shown to promote fat loss? Or that protein might be used by the body to repair lean tissue instead of benig used as energy? Or the activation of different enzymes in the body as a response to different foods?

    Like I said, there is much more (non-magical things) going on inside a human body than just calories in - calories out.
    "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by itchy166 View Post
    Like I said, there is much more (non-magical things) going on inside a human body than just calories in - calories out.
    And you are right. Its the health of your entire system. Its not necessarily CICO that is incorrect (just simplistic)... its "eat less and exercise more" that is truly infuriating and doesn't work for people who have been overfed and undernourished for an extended time.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by itchy166 View Post
    Do you think that maybe some foods take more ENERGY than others to digest fully? Or that different states, like ketosis which I am in for example, have different efficiencies? Or that intermittent fasting might change my hormonal balance in a way that helps with fat loss? Or that vitamin D has been shown to help with fat loss? Or that omega 3 has been shown to reduce belly fat? Or that MCT may help with fat loss? Or that saturated fat has been shown to promote fat loss? And that vitamin k has been shown to promote fat loss? Or that protein might be used by the body to repair lean tissue instead of benig used as energy? Or the activation of different enzymes in the body as a response to different foods?

    Like I said, there is much more (non-magical things) going on inside a human body than just calories in - calories out.
    You are here showing clearly that you don't fully understand what CICO really is, but the principle as such is untouchable, unfortunately when most persons try to use it they usually make lots of mistakes, and it is not easy because there are so many parameters in play on both sides of the equation, so I think that the avarage Joe when dieting could have more focus on portion control instead of counting calories. Calories is just an abstract measure for energy in food and basically losing weight is always eating less than the body needs for energy, and gaining weight(fat) is also always eating more than needed for the daily energy expenditure. People tend to overthink and complicate this simple fact, and it's not exactly rocket science either...

  9. #229
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    CICO is so simplistic that it is almost irrelevant in any nutritional discussion.

    It's only good as a starting point, but lots of fine tuning will be required to get the individual balance right.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    You are here showing clearly that you don't fully understand what CICO really is, but the principle as such is untouchable, unfortunately when most persons try to use it they usually make lots of mistakes, and it is not easy because there are so many parameters in play on both sides of the equation, so I think that the avarage Joe when dieting could have more focus on portion control instead of counting calories. Calories is just an abstract measure for energy in food and basically losing weight is always eating less than the body needs for energy, and gaining weight(fat) is also always eating more than needed for the daily energy expenditure. People tend to overthink and complicate this simple fact, and it's not exactly rocket science either...
    I don't even need much science to prove my point.

    I am in ketosis. I know this because I pee on a stick that changes color in the presence of ketones. Ketones are made inside my body from breaking down fatty acids.

    Ketones can be used by my body as fuel (calories). If my body isn't very good at using ketones, or I am making ketones faster than my body can using them (they don't stay in my blodstream too long), I pee them out!!! (again, I KNOW this, because I MEASURE THEM COMING OUT!!!)

    My way of eating causes me to pee away some of the calories that I consume. So literally CI=CO yes, but not the calories out that you are talking about... I think you don't fully understand what CICO really is.
    "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

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