Low carb + lower fat page 19

[magicmerl]

Zach I am defending it because it works for some, and not everyone is going to be damaged by it.

<snip>

And don't you dare say I want to destroy myself, I DON"T want to live in this fat disgusting body and I am working my way through it, you don't know me, and don't understand.
If I didn't care I would be stuffing myself with SAD food still, and eating myself into a stupor. So please just stop.

Ayla, put Zach on ignore. (Click on his name in one of his posts, and then 'view profile'. In his profile, click 'Add to ignore list'. When prompted, choose 'yes'.)

That's the easy way to make him 'just stop'.

[PrimalStudent]

Ayla, it seems like you are just coming back to wanting to lose weight now. There are a bunch of threads on here you can read for that.

Here's my take on it:

1. Weight loss IS about caloric restriction

2. The easiest way to eat less AND feel full is by minimising carbs (hence fat + protein). This doesn't mean cutting carbs out completely, just make them a minor part of any meal. Low Carb + Low Fat is the worst of all worlds (if actually followed, it leads to rabbit starvation).

3. The trick to not slowing your metabolism is to FEAST once a week, so your body still thinks the good times are here. The other 6 days, eat normally/sparingly/only to hunger/IF. I don't calorie count, but skipping lunch has the desired effect of reducing calories for me. This is the same as people who cut out bread and don't fully replace it with other foods. They've inadvertently reduced theor calorie intake.

I second this -- particularly point #3. I keep my calories quite low throughout the week (1200-1300... which is low for a 5'9, reasonably active, 20-year old female who is 130lbs) but then have a real (primal) feast once a week. The next day, I go back to my usual eating, and the result is that I look noticeably leaner almost immediately.

[Ripped]

Ripped, what you said doesn't even make sense and you're horribly wrong.

This is why fat people are fat. Because they can't understand simple concepts. They allow others to confuse them so they lose sight of what really works. Eat less and you won't be fat anymore. If this weren't the case, POW's and the kids in Africa would be obese. But they aren't.

Here's a guy who figured it out. He was over 450 lbs, then one day decided he was going to start eating less and working out regularly. He stuck to it and worked his ass off, and lost 250 lbs in a year. Now he's been around 175 lbs for a decade.
Just Stop Eating So Much!

Wow, what a genius. Who would have known? I mean, I never would have guessed that if you just ate less and exercised more you'd lose fat. Because all the fat people, who all seem to be the biggest experts on diet, they all keep saying you have to eat more in order to keep the metabolism high.

[AngryKiwi47]

Here's a guy who figured it out. He was over 450 lbs, then one day decided he was going to start eating less and working out regularly. He stuck to it and worked his ass off, and lost 250 lbs in a year. Now he's been around 175 lbs for a decade.
Just Stop Eating So Much!

Wow, what a genius. Who would have known? I mean, I never would have guessed that if you just ate less and exercised more you'd lose fat. Because all the fat people, who all seem to be the biggest experts on diet, they all keep saying you have to eat more in order to keep the metabolism high.

I see what our getting at and totally agree.

...but that guy is small. He looks weak.

[Ripped]

Ayla2010,
I want to make it clear that it wasn't my intentions if I offended you on that one. I know you are sensitive on such issues. And I also know how frustrating it can be when you are confused about what to do. I've been there.

But if you ask me, I'd say just don't listen to all the fad diet nonsense that people tell to each other. It doesn't work, it never will, and you know it. Stick to what is tried and true. Eat less calories and work your ass off in the gym and the fat HAS to come off. It can't not work.

Good luck to you. Work hard!!! You can do it.

[Ripped]

I see what our getting at and totally agree.

Good!!!

...but that guy is small. He looks weak.

Emphasizing this is missing the whole point. He was fat and sick and was digging his own grave, and now he's of normal healthy weight and changed his life completely. He likely avoided losing decades off his life because of this.

It's not like he's trying to be like Ronnie Coleman or anything. He just wanted to not be disgustingly fat anymore. And what he did worked perfectly fine in order to achieve that goal.

If any of that makes any sense, my main point is that you don't need to be idolizing top athletes, unless you're planning on competing in such a sport and being the best. If not, then it doesn't make any sense. You have to have practical goals that make sense to you and a practical way to achieve it.

In my case, I already was strong, so when I dropped the fat I still had the muscle. In that one guys case, I don't think he was as lucky. He was out of shape and probably weak to begin with, and I doubt being strong was his goal anyways. I still think what he did was a GREAT achievement FOR HIM. What he did worked and continued to work for years and years.

[AngryKiwi47]

Emphasizing this is missing the whole point. He was fat and sick and was digging his own grave, and now he's of normal healthy weight and changed his life completely. He likely avoided losing decades off his life because of this.

It's not like he's trying to be like Ronnie Coleman or anything. He just wanted to not be disgustingly fat anymore. And what he did worked perfectly fine in order to achieve that goal.

If any of that makes any sense, my main point is that you don't need to be idolizing top athletes, unless you're planning on competing in such a sport and being the best. If not, then it doesn't make any sense. You have to have practical goals that make sense to you and a practical way to achieve it.

In my case, I already was strong, so when I dropped the fat I still had the muscle. In that one guys case, I don't think he was as lucky. He was out of shape and probably weak to begin with, and I doubt being strong was his goal anyways. I still think what he did was a GREAT achievement FOR HIM. What he did worked and continued to work for years and years.

No, I got your point. I just think what he did was over-the-top extreme and he could have gone a better way without it.

He doesn't seem to have a very healthy attitude towards food, either. I quite from his site:
I am testament to the sage saying, “Nothing tastes as good as being thin feels.
This is a full-grown man we're talking about here; he sounds like an anorexic super-model. Or just an anorexic.

Also, My daily intake went from mounds of junk food to small portions of healthy food (from all food groups) totaling around 1,500 – 1,700 calories. I even signed up for an aerobics class with a group of women I’d never met before who became some of my biggest fans. I had a support system of strangers. It was amazing.. For a big guy as he was, I suspect he could have cut down fat at 3000 calories - maybe 2500. Just eating at that and heavy lifting, he could have preserved some LBM (which he would have had; one does grow muscle even in a sedentary lifestyle, albeit only a minor amount in ratio to fat gains) that he without a doubt lost from severe calorie restriction and aerobics classes.
Then he hilariously goes on to say: There was nothing crazy involved in the process — no invasive surgeries, no weight loss pills, no cutting out certain food groups and no crash or dangerous dieting. I would classify severe calorie restriction as dangerous dieting - sure, it's not cabbage soup or anything, but it's a little over the top.
A the very least, the guy could have cut on that low amount - getting adequate protein to maintain LBM - and "moved more", including lifting, until he hit 300lbs, where he could create a more sustainable deficit. Because now... this is coming from a skinny guy, I'll remind you... the guy looks pretty weak. And kinda skinny fat.
http://blog.juststopeatingsomuch.com...-PICTURE-9.jpg

TL;DR: I really like the point you're making about "eat less, move more" - best way to lose weight/fat that for some reason most if not all diet hoppers just can't wrap their heads around - however I don't think this guy's a very good example, nor a role model.

/endlatenightburble. :P

[Artbuc]

Ayla, put Zach on ignore. (Click on his name in one of his posts, and then 'view profile'. In his profile, click 'Add to ignore list'. When prompted, choose 'yes'.)

That's the easy way to make him 'just stop'.

Thanks for the tip. I just put the Z-man on ignore.

[Ripped]

No, I got your point. I just think what he did was over-the-top extreme and he could have gone a better way without it.

He doesn't seem to have a very healthy attitude towards food, either. I quite from his site:
I am testament to the sage saying, “Nothing tastes as good as being thin feels.
This is a full-grown man we're talking about here; he sounds like an anorexic super-model. Or just an anorexic.

Also, My daily intake went from mounds of junk food to small portions of healthy food (from all food groups) totaling around 1,500 – 1,700 calories. I even signed up for an aerobics class with a group of women I’d never met before who became some of my biggest fans. I had a support system of strangers. It was amazing.. For a big guy as he was, I suspect he could have cut down fat at 3000 calories - maybe 2500. Just eating at that and heavy lifting, he could have preserved some LBM (which he would have had; one does grow muscle even in a sedentary lifestyle, albeit only a minor amount in ratio to fat gains) that he without a doubt lost from severe calorie restriction and aerobics classes.
Then he hilariously goes on to say: There was nothing crazy involved in the process — no invasive surgeries, no weight loss pills, no cutting out certain food groups and no crash or dangerous dieting. I would classify severe calorie restriction as dangerous dieting - sure, it's not cabbage soup or anything, but it's a little over the top.
A the very least, the guy could have cut on that low amount - getting adequate protein to maintain LBM - and "moved more", including lifting, until he hit 300lbs, where he could create a more sustainable deficit. Because now... this is coming from a skinny guy, I'll remind you... the guy looks pretty weak. And kinda skinny fat.
http://blog.juststopeatingsomuch.com...-PICTURE-9.jpg

TL;DR: I really like the point you're making about "eat less, move more" - best way to lose weight/fat that for some reason most if not all diet hoppers just can't wrap their heads around - however I don't think this guy's a very good example, nor a role model.

/endlatenightburble. :P

I would agree that there are better ways to do it. I'd rather have the muscle. But I'm not going to bash the guy if he didn't know or take that route. Give the guy a break! He probably saved his own life!!!

Aside from that, crash dieting actually has it's place. While it's a definite no-no for a person of normal healthy weight, it still has it's place with obese individuals. Doctors actually prescribe it to obese individuals in the form of a protein sparing modified fast (PSMF). When they do it, they restrict calories severely, but they still make sure the patient still gets all their essential nutrients such as protein, fats, vitamins, and minerals.

While it is commonly believed that such would be bad for someone, I am convinced that such is only dogma and fear for no reason. The reason why is due to the lack of proof. Even if there was any proof of possible danger with such a protocol, the doctors would still do it because the risks of not doing it outweigh the risks of doing it. When obese, the patient is already at risk, and they need to fix it ASAP in order to get better. Otherwise they risk disease and possible death.

PS.
Being 175 lbs isn't anorexic. To think so is just some more modern world nonsense. It's disgusting. I'm probably offending everyone by saying this. But I don't care. People are fat in the modern world because of beliefs in society that allow them to continue to allow themselves to be that way. It shouldn't be acceptable. If people didn't accept it, it wouldn't happen.

I mean, when I was heavy, nobody ever told me so. I guess they just didn't want to hurt my feelings. They waited until I lost weight to tell me that I used to be fat. That clearly didn't help me at all, because I didn't know I was fat. Luckily, I had one friend who was mean enough to tell me the truth; I was so mad. Hearing the truth is what made me want to change. So I did. And years later I went back and thanked him. At that point he told me the truth again, that I looked the best I ever did since he knew me.

[zoebird]

I think that most people who are fat know that they are fat.

I say this because I hear so many people calling themselves fat. People who are 10 lbs overweight to people who are 100 lbs overweight. They all call themselves fat -- a lot. Frequently.

A lot of them loose weight. They do it in a lot of different ways. Usually, the best combination is a lifestyle change. They move from a sedentary lifestyle with processed foods and a fair amount of alcohol to a relatively active lifestyle with whole foods and a moderate amount of alcohol.

For many, it doesn't even take a BIG change such as "cut way back on calories and work your ass off in the gym." I have clients who go from totally sedentary/junk foods to yoga class (45 minutes) 1-3x week plus walking (say 30 minutes/day in between yoga classes), and then eating more whole foods and having less alcohol. . . and guess what? weight loss.

For many of my newbies, I encourage them to start with just one class a week -- get into the habit of movement. Get into the habit of coming to class once a week. It usually expands on it's own from there -- moving into healthier sleep, movement, and dietary practices.

But, it doesn't take anythng "extreme" per se.