45+ Ladies - Has it been harder for you to lose on PB? page 9

[Paleobird]

Perhaps it has to do with what I read more than once in this thread, that post-menopausal women who are eating high fat are slathering it on in addition to everything else they have been eating, while sitting on their fat asses on their couches. I know what works for me, and I have read I should never ever do those things.

This is from the original Eat Moar Fat thread I did:

I'm now finally "getting" what the forum pundits were saying about "EAT MOAR FAT!". They were right except that was a simplistic way to put it. If they had said, "Eat a higher proportion of your calories as fat while keeping your protein moderate and your carbs low AND your total calorie intake in check", that would have been perfect.

But everyone kept telling me that calories didn't matter and that my body would just wonderfully "know" when to stop eating and that I should just "listen" to my body. Um, my body was too confused to be "telling" me anything that made sense.

So I dialed back the fat, reduced calories and powered through on lean protein, lots of it. And it worked. So I'm not knocking that approach.

I just can't tell you how much better I feel, however, while in deep ketosis. I feel like leaping tall buildings.

So, no, I am not saying that calorie counting should be tossed. Just that the two approaches, the "EAT MOAR FAT!" Camp and the "Calories Count so Count Your Calories Camp" need to be synthesized into one. Ketosis is the key that brings them together.

I totally agree with you that the comments made about everyone on the More Fat thread being a bunch of fatsos trading pizza recipes were out of line. The portion control aspect of Primal was what was missing when I first tried this approach. Both quality and quantity of your calories need to be important

[gopintos]

This is from the original Eat Moar Fat thread I did:
"Eat a higher proportion of your calories as fat while keeping your protein moderate and your carbs low AND your total calorie intake in check", that would have been perfect

I totally agree with you that the comments made about everyone on the More Fat thread being a bunch of fatsos trading pizza recipes were out of line. The portion control aspect of Primal was what was missing when I first tried this approach. Both quality and quantity of your calories need to be important

Yal that comment was uncalled for, just as the first nasty comment that started this whole thing - which was later deleted when things started to heat up - was also uncalled for. No need for any of that stuff.

Someone asked a question. Someone else answered it by saying.... "This is my advice." He did not say, this is what everyone absolutely must do under any and all circumstances.

I don't know why that has spun this so out of whack, pitting one side against another. Except that person that wrote the first comment, then later deleted it, but spewed over into another thread to try to stir the sh*t. Just no reason for that.

For me, Calories were never a part of my issue, except that perhaps they were too low. I think it is just not as simple as just keeping your calories in check for HFLC to work for everyone. I get that Ketosis helps some ppl, but even Mark says it does not need to be done for more than a few days in otherwise healthy ppl. If you want to, then that's ok too. But if you arent meeting your goals, it's time to try something else.

So for those of us that high fat doesnt work with calories in check, something else needs to be done. That's all.

[Ayla2010]

In my personal view, one of the problems on the MDA site is the 'fat women/men' who have made it their job to lord over others and share their experiences. I use the Eat More Fat string on MDA. My God....these perio-meno women are overweight, have been members for years, and espouse knowledge like it was the drinking fountain in Rome. How about getting your fat asses off the computer -- get thee self to a gym or cross fit, and spend less time espousing what you think you know to the rest of us who are do'ers. I think it is more challenging for senior women to lose the weight, and gain an enviable shape -- but it's not impossible. Adopt the primal rules -- sleep, exercise, reduce stress, EAT LESS overall and stop spending hours on these forums by starting your own strings of 'favourite primal pizza and home made bread'.

I'm just about bored of these forums because I'm tired of the same old, overweight women espousing their excuses on why they are not successful: I'm a binger; I love chocolate too much; I drink too much; I had 3 birthday parties this weekend and on and on the excuses go.

If you want to be thin, lean, fit and healthy -- just do it and get off these forums and go walk. It's frustrating and sad to see so many people think that their success lies in the 'group hug's on the forum.

Okay --- go ahead -- burn me now. I don't care --- just grabbing my bag to get out to my cross fit class. Carry on!

Wow, just wow. Nasty.

[Ayla2010]

Advice.

Start slow. Years and years of low carb leaves you physiologically insulin resistant. It isn't like insulin resistance with metabolic syndrome - rather, abstaining from carbs for so long just leaves your insulin so low, your body stops relying on it and relies more and more on fat oxidation. Just like too much refined carbohydrate reduces fat metabolism, no carbohydrate reduces glucose metabolism.

If you immediately change it up and start piling on fruit and starch, you'll probably react poorly. You'll bloat. You'll get tired. And you'll conclude that carbs aren't for you. I see it time and time again - people on longterm ketogenic diets suddenly stand up and eat 3 sweet potatoes in a sitting, crash, bloat, get gassy, then conclude they can't have carbs. No, no, no!

Start small. Reduce the fat content of your meals and just add a tiny sweet potato or a piece of fruit. Instead of a ribeye and vegetables, eat a sirloin with a sweet potato and a little butter to slow digestion. Slowly, slowly increase carbohydrate intake until it feels comfortable. If you bloat or feel tired, just chalk it up to doing too much at once. Stick to the lower GI starches - bananas and sweet potatoes - and fruit to get you started. You'll eventually be able to move onto higher GI starches like white potatoes or even white rice if you choose.

Or maybe you should try a middle ground - squashes and starchier roots like parsnips and celery root. Boiled mashed turnips make a great sub for mashed white potatoes! I sometimes boil turnips with a clove of garlic, then puree them with altogether with a hand emulsifier with some green onions.

Who knows, maybe you'll be a rare case and tolerate white potatoes and white rice even better since they're "cleaner" - not so fibrous. Try a little bit of everything...but make sure to start with A LITTLE!

Chaco, you have made me even more confused.
I have been LC for 2 months, then VLC for the last 6 weeks. I know it hasn't been years of low carb, but still.
How do you explain why my insulin is extremely high, not trying to argue, id really like to know. Just been diagnosed a diabetic due to that. I have another thread about diabetes if you would like to answer there, since this is a thread about something else, and don't want to upset the OP.

[Paleobird]

Chaco, you have made me even more confused.
I have been LC for 2 months, then VLC for the last 6 weeks. I know it hasn't been years of low carb, but still.
How do you explain why my insulin is extremely high, not trying to argue, id really like to know. Just been diagnosed a diabetic due to that. I have another thread about diabetes if you would like to answer there, since this is a thread about something else, and don't want to upset the OP.

Ayla, Chaco is giving you good instructions as to how to work up to tolerating starches in your diet. What he isn't saying is why you would want to do that in the first place. He needs that starch to fuel his weightlifting efforts. You don't. And staying the course on LC will bring your glucose down. It worked for my Dad. He completely reversed his diabetes diagnosis.

[Ayla2010]

I know I don't want more starches but trying to work out why he said that about insulin.
I have started another thread, as I am desperate for help, but I am getting more confused, but that is just me. I am angry at myself. I have Zach saying HFLC caused my high insulin, in such a short amount of time, compared with the years of abuse id already given my body. Too much information to wade through and I need to understand this.

[aktres]

In my personal view, one of the problems on the MDA site is the 'fat women/men' who have made it their job to lord over others and share their experiences. I use the Eat More Fat string on MDA. My God....these perio-meno women are overweight, have been members for years, and espouse knowledge like it was the drinking fountain in Rome. How about getting your fat asses off the computer -- get thee self to a gym or cross fit, and spend less time espousing what you think you know to the rest of us who are do'ers. I think it is more challenging for senior women to lose the weight, and gain an enviable shape -- but it's not impossible. Adopt the primal rules -- sleep, exercise, reduce stress, EAT LESS overall and stop spending hours on these forums by starting your own strings of 'favourite primal pizza and home made bread'.

Wow, just wow. Nasty.

Ayla, if the person quoted above is actually the same age as she reports in her profile, she's in for a rude awakening.

It's sad a place like MDA could descend to such talk. Everyone here is working hard on improving their own health. There is no reason to judge others whose n=1 does not align with your own.

[Ayla2010]

I truly don't know.
But I can't think of anything more hurtful to say that. Louise do you really think we all sit on our asses all day?
She is really generalising there about us primalising foods. I don't do that. I don't have any cheats at all. And to assume none of us go to a gym? Some of us are doing all those primal things, sleeping, exercising and reducing stress and its still not easy. Most likely due to crap eating for so many years.
Sorry Louise that you don't understand ever being obese. Please don't tell us its easier than it is, its not freaking easy, and its so painful. Try looking like this, I bet you can't even imagine.

[gopintos]

I know I don't want more starches but trying to work out why he said that about insulin.
I have started another thread, as I am desperate for help, but I am getting more confused, but that is just me. I am angry at myself. I have Zach saying HFLC caused my high insulin, in such a short amount of time, compared with the years of abuse id already given my body. Too much information to wade through and I need to understand this.

I havent read the other thread, and I don't know much about it, however after this post, I did look through PHD and he has written quite alot about it. Might be worth it to check it out He may even have info on his website.

[Ayla2010]

I do have the PHD book but have not read yet. I will have a look