45+ Ladies - Has it been harder for you to lose on PB? page 6

[cori93437]

I don't mean to cherry pick your post, but this is really the only point I feel the need to address.


That's because I don't believe what you state actually exists. I believe it is correlative, not causative. I'll explain.
[snip]

Sorry for chopping out the long part... but I didn't think I needed to repost the whole thing.

And I do understand everything that you are saying about food in regards to volume and caloric load. However I think you underestimate fats ability to satiate on very little volume. I keep up with the posts on food and many are not eating much protein at all, just meeting minimums, lowering the protein intake as they raise the fat ... nor, often, much in the way of vegetables volume wise. It doesn't happen the first day of HF, but it can happen that when eating very high fat that just very small portions of calorically dense foods offer satiety. And honestly I can't explain the mechanism by which this works. But it does offer these people a window of opportunity for learning food control if they deal with bingeing issues.

I completely get "eat real food" for most everyone, even the leaner foods because that makes sense. But for a binge prone person who is eating large volumes of regular food to "fill" themselves they may never have that clear head space where they don't feel any need to eat, to work on the larger issues. And when a binge strikes they aren't going to eat broccoli, but they will want VOLUME consistent with the volume that they normally eat. HFLC usually means that the person is eating a lower volume of food daily, still feels satiated, and I believe that this is very important in particular for the emotionally driven eater. The way I see it expressed over and over again is that they are amazed at how little they want to eat, how they no longer feel controlled by food. This is a very important step towards their self awareness and self actualization of control over binge triggers and behaviors.

All I'm saying is just because you don't understand that fat satiety mechanism yourself, don't completely discount it.

And perhaps since you do acknowledge the validity of HFLC as a medical tool, you should perhaps consider this area of HFLC as that sort of tool as well. Binge eating and emotional/disordered eating patterns just aren't as simple as "suck it up and go to the gym" like some people want to put it. No longer feeling like every single day is a battle between you and the "binge", where your hunger eats at you and you feel completely irrational or out of control about your actions re food... The mental healing aspect that this approach can have; that has to count for something.


As a side note I'd like to add that I eat HFLC for different reasons, but I have had emotional eating problems in the past.
I have brain issues and food volume issues. I need low carb to help control the medical problem with the brain, and I had to up my fat because I eat a limited volume of food due to the medical issues. I get physically sick if I eat a larger volume. Therefore eating the fattier food is better for me... when I was eating low fat and more carbs (quite a good amount) I was eating the same protein, because that is basically a fixed number for me (or I get sick), but under eating calories terribly so that I was tired, sleeping all the time, and losing no weight.

[LauraSB]

ChocoTaco, you're 26?! WTF, you're hardly any older than Justin Bieber! I could have given birth to you! Still, I find your take on macros and calories to be very sensible, probably because it's consistent with my experience.

I'm 50. I had a hysterectomy at 42 for giant fibroids - just my uterus, still have ovaries and cervix. I had random cycles my whole life before that, multiple miscarriages, probably something just short of PCOS, though I did manage to have 2 kids. I lost 60 lbs last year after 20 years of being obese. The first 30 lbs were prior to being primal. The next 30 were slower, but also easier, I think because the nutrient density of my food was steadily climbing.

I guess its not very primal, but I count calories religiously and hop on the scale every single day. I am terrible about exercising beyond the PB slow movement component. I sort of shoot for 40/40/20 f/c/p, but often end up at 35/45/20. I tried pushing higher fat and didn't find it all that helpful in term of satiety. Now at what theoretically ought to be maintenance calories for 130 lbs, I am continuing to lose weight at about 2 lbs/month. I am a big cheater with alcohol, especially beer. I rarely eat nuts or chocolate. I feel much worse about my lack of strength training than anything that goes in my mouth. I'd say primal foods are working great for me. PB as recommended by Mark Sisson is something I don't really have experience with.

[JoanieL]

While there is no dispute that metabolism slows as we age, another factor is simply lifestyle. If I look back 30 years, I:

-was going to school full-time which included 2 PE classes just so I could get grades for working out (usually weight training and something dance-y)
-was working 32-40 hours/week (all of those from Friday night to Monday morning)
-went "clubbing" two nights a week
-used a bicycle for errands around my neighborhood, but also rode it for pleasure in the park

If I did all that now (plus studying/preparing papers which isn't physical), I'd keel over. Not only was I more active, I really didn't have much time to eat. In fact this was when I discovered one meal a day living. (I also discovered that if you put three tablespoons of instant coffee into 4 oz of boiling water, it keeps you awake, but that's not a good thing.)

So, lift heavy things (muscles are more metabolically active than are bones, organs, or fat) and move around more. It won't make you 25 again, but it will make 45, 55, 65, 75, 85, and so on a little easier.

I've found that calories do count for me. But eating very low carb is a great way to jump start a weight loss program as it generally makes me feel less hungry.

[moo]

kudos to Choco! I am 45 and in total agreement with Chocos posts on this topic even though he is, gasp, a 26 YO male.

For the record, there are plenty of ladies in their 40s and up who were awesome members at this site but now no longer post here. One of those reasons happen to be the VLC + the slather everything with fat + eat as much bacon as you can mentality.

One thing I want to mention about hunger is that not only thirst can be masked as this but also lack of sleep. If the lack of sleep was due to partying too hard the night before then the hunger seems 10 fold. Don't eat, drink a glass of water and have a nap. Lack of sleep might also leave you grasping for a box of Ho Ho's.


Yes, fat is essential. Somehow people choose to interpret Paleo/Primal as slathering everything with gobs of fat and eating a jar of coconut oil or cubes of butter on a daily basis while avoiding a leaf of lettuce.

Another big problem I see is people not paying attention to how their bodies react to certain foods which is obviously not good. Just because you can eat nuts doesn't mean you should. Just because dairy is allowed doesn't mean YOU should be ingesting it. I rarely have joint pain anymore which I always attributed to exercise. What a crock. I don't eat bacon because it makes me feel like crap. Same for nuts. Same for tomatoes which is my favorite food ever.

If your body reacts to certain foods with inflammation (joint pain, gas, bloating etc) then just imagine what they are doing to your hormones.

Sometimes you need to really pay attention to the educated posts here and on other forums.

Also, if you aren't attempting to lift heavy, you aren't doing your body any favors. Especially if you are cutting calories back too much. As a matter of fact, I am vain. haha. I want to rock my bikini until I am 100. LBM is precious to me.

Thanks again Choco.

[calee]

Thank you everyone who has posted. I'm 62 and new to Primal. I've been low carbs for decades but occasionally still ate grains and sugar. So far eating Primal is great. After years, actually decades of being morbidly obese, I am finally at a normal weight. That said, I have fat to lose. I have been doing HFLC and second guessing myself. Thinking that I should just do Primal by the book and trust the process. After decades of dieting, it's difficult to give up that mentality.

I'm going to rethink my macros. Any advice gratefully accepted. I'm healthy and walk between 5k and 10k daily. I have a gym and want to start lifting heavy things. I will need to get help with that.

Again, thanks to everyone that took the time to share your experiences and knowledge.

[ChocoTaco369]

Thank you everyone who has posted. I'm 62 and new to Primal. I've been low carbs for decades but occasionally still ate grains and sugar. So far eating Primal is great. After years, actually decades of being morbidly obese, I am finally at a normal weight. That said, I have fat to lose. I have been doing HFLC and second guessing myself. Thinking that I should just do Primal by the book and trust the process. After decades of dieting, it's difficult to give up that mentality.

I'm going to rethink my macros. Any advice gratefully accepted. I'm healthy and walk between 5k and 10k daily. I have a gym and want to start lifting heavy things. I will need to get help with that.

Again, thanks to everyone that took the time to share your experiences and knowledge.

Advice.

Start slow. Years and years of low carb leaves you physiologically insulin resistant. It isn't like insulin resistance with metabolic syndrome - rather, abstaining from carbs for so long just leaves your insulin so low, your body stops relying on it and relies more and more on fat oxidation. Just like too much refined carbohydrate reduces fat metabolism, no carbohydrate reduces glucose metabolism.

If you immediately change it up and start piling on fruit and starch, you'll probably react poorly. You'll bloat. You'll get tired. And you'll conclude that carbs aren't for you. I see it time and time again - people on longterm ketogenic diets suddenly stand up and eat 3 sweet potatoes in a sitting, crash, bloat, get gassy, then conclude they can't have carbs. No, no, no!

Start small. Reduce the fat content of your meals and just add a tiny sweet potato or a piece of fruit. Instead of a ribeye and vegetables, eat a sirloin with a sweet potato and a little butter to slow digestion. Slowly, slowly increase carbohydrate intake until it feels comfortable. If you bloat or feel tired, just chalk it up to doing too much at once. Stick to the lower GI starches - bananas and sweet potatoes - and fruit to get you started. You'll eventually be able to move onto higher GI starches like white potatoes or even white rice if you choose.

Or maybe you should try a middle ground - squashes and starchier roots like parsnips and celery root. Boiled mashed turnips make a great sub for mashed white potatoes! I sometimes boil turnips with a clove of garlic, then puree them with altogether with a hand emulsifier with some green onions.

Who knows, maybe you'll be a rare case and tolerate white potatoes and white rice even better since they're "cleaner" - not so fibrous. Try a little bit of everything...but make sure to start with A LITTLE!

[ChocoTaco369]

ChocoTaco, you're 26?! WTF, you're hardly any older than Justin Bieber!

Oh no. The Bieb? Anyone but the Bieb.

[Silvergirl]

Well I seem to qualify. 54, not fully in menopause but very close. (actually going Primal started things up again) Hypothyroid.

This diet has been really good for me. A struggle healthwise at times, due to a huge aggravation of my duodenal ulcer and thyroid. But the diet part for me has been really really easy. I am now 102lbs at 5'2" been maintaining this for quite a while now. Trying to keep from weighing less. I was very strict with the diet though. 3 small meals a day with no counting calories or portions. I use some of the techniques from the French diet. Like using a very small plate, putting my cutlery down after each bite and chewing everything thoroughly and taking a long time. During the diet phase I ate no sugar whatsoever, and no starchy carbs. and frankly not a lot of carbs in general. I included a lot of fat. If I ever felt like I was hungry or needed a boost I had a spoon of coconut oil. (I started with nuts, but found they really hurt my stomach) I did still eat some fruit, always bacon and half a fried banana for breakfast, and usually some fruit with protein or just leftovers for lunch. Not a lot of fruit though. For me a lot of fat is what makes it all work. I never hardly feel hungry or have cravings when I have enough fat. Rich homemade fatty sauces on my meat etc. But the quantity is small.....

Exercise wise I am not doing enough. I occasionally have attempted a sprint and have occasionally done hand weights, I do live in a walking town though. But really not doing much more than pre Primal. I must.

I got down to 100lbs, which is too low for me and a BMI of 18. but have managed to get up to 102 and seem to be staying there pretty much. I have added back into my diet some Sweet Potato, reg potato, and occasional rice. Also coconut milk icecream and sorbet which have some sugar. Tried GF cookies, but don't feel good on those at all. I also found myself to have a problem with eggs and dairy. So have had to eliminate those altogether.

Good luck, I hope that something I have said helps

[Neckhammer]

I know this is a weight loss thread, so probably not the best place to point this out.... but I'm gonna anyhow :

Maybe you don't wanna be too lean post-menopause

CONCLUSIONS:

BMI below 25 in elderly men and women was associated with increased mortality. A modest increase in mortality was found with increasing BMI among obese men and women. Overweight individuals (BMI 25-29.9) had the lowest mortality.

Just saying.... Primal is first and foremost healthy well beyond the simple measurements obtained on your bathroom scale. For the 45+ crowd of women I'd recommend this program as is for health and longevity. Tweak it for performance or body recomp if need be, but don't fool yourself into thinking that having a little pooch as you age is always detrimental to your health(less your fixated on magazine covers). Focus on staying active, mobile, and strong while eating primal IMO.

[calee]

Advice.

Start slow. Years and years of low carb leaves you physiologically insulin resistant. It isn't like insulin resistance with metabolic syndrome - rather, abstaining from carbs for so long just leaves your insulin so low, your body stops relying on it and relies more and more on fat oxidation. Just like too much refined carbohydrate reduces fat metabolism, no carbohydrate reduces glucose metabolism.

If you immediately change it up and start piling on fruit and starch, you'll probably react poorly. You'll bloat. You'll get tired. And you'll conclude that carbs aren't for you. I see it time and time again - people on longterm ketogenic diets suddenly stand up and eat 3 sweet potatoes in a sitting, crash, bloat, get gassy, then conclude they can't have carbs. No, no, no!

Start small. Reduce the fat content of your meals and just add a tiny sweet potato or a piece of fruit. Instead of a ribeye and vegetables, eat a sirloin with a sweet potato and a little butter to slow digestion. Slowly, slowly increase carbohydrate intake until it feels comfortable. If you bloat or feel tired, just chalk it up to doing too much at once. Stick to the lower GI starches - bananas and sweet potatoes - and fruit to get you started. You'll eventually be able to move onto higher GI starches like white potatoes or even white rice if you choose.

Or maybe you should try a middle ground - squashes and starchier roots like parsnips and celery root. Boiled mashed turnips make a great sub for mashed white potatoes! I sometimes boil turnips with a clove of garlic, then puree them with altogether with a hand emulsifier with some green onions.

Who knows, maybe you'll be a rare case and tolerate white potatoes and white rice even better since they're "cleaner" - not so fibrous. Try a little bit of everything...but make sure to start with A LITTLE!

Thanks for this advice. I will think about it all. I know that when I eat starch or even berries my weight loss stalls. There is a lot of info to think about here.