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Thread: 45+ Ladies - Has it been harder for you to lose on PB? page 13

  1. #121
    LauraSB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayla2010 View Post
    So me just being diagnosed with diabetes, due to extremely high insulin is because?
    In another thread I was told it was because of being LCHF, but that is really only a short time compared to years of crap eating etc.
    I think technically, I'm responding in the wrong thread. Oh well.

    The high insulin and relatively normal fasting glucose sounded so odd to me and none of the LCHF explanations were very convincing with regard to the insulin that I actually searched "elevated insulin normal fasting glucose". There were a ton of hits that addressed this specifically. I thought this one Blood Sugar & Insulin: The Essentials did the best job of explaining in simple terms. Be sure to scroll down to the section on insulin.

    This one Insulin Resistance and Hyperinsulinemia is a lot more technical but does a better job of explaining how full blown Type 2 diabetes starts with your body over producing insulin. They call that stage pre-diabetes though.

    After reading both those articles, I don't think blaming LCHF for elevated insulin makes any sense at all. If you were to start taking Metformin would your doctor monitor your insulin levels to make sure it was really working? If it brought your insulin levels down quickly it should make weight loss easier. It's also a drug that people stop taking once they have their insulin and blood sugar under control with diet, so it's not like it has to be a long term commitment.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post


    Basically, the hypothesis is calories only count if your carbs are high because insulin is some demonic fat storage hormone, and if you can keep insulin low you can't store fat. This is, of course, completely ridiculous because dietary fat is stored directly and does not require insulin, and excess fat in your diet is the quickest way to put on adipose tissue. Richard Nikoley does a nice little rant here:

    Synthesis: Low-Carb and Food Reward/Palatability, and Why Calories Count | Free The Animal



    It's a good read and worth taking the 10 mins to go through.
    This "rant" is awesome and describes the conclusion that I am coming to for me personally.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I don't think you understand what a high fat diet is. A truly high fat diet - 60-70% calories from fat - isn't exactly natural. You can't do that without supplementing with oils and higher fat processed foods (shredded coconut, coconut milk, nut butters, etc). If you actually just eat without thinking, you'll probably fall in the 40% range. Is 40% calories from fat high fat? Maybe compared to AHA guidelines, but IMO it's pretty moderate.
    Sorry but you are just wrong. I eat at those percentages all the time on all real foods. And since when are coconut milk and shredded coconut not real foods? And nut butters are just ground up nuts. I don't use then due to the pufa factor but since when is somethign that grows on a tree not a real enough food?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Really? Have you not seen the hundreds of threads about people eating straight coconut oil, blending entire sticks of butter in their coffee, eating Kerrygold by the slice, using pork rinds as tortilla chip substitutes and spooning bacon grease on food just because?

    This is commonplace. You are not going to eat 60+% calories from fat naturally. You have to go out of your way to do it unless you're going so subsist solely on fried eggs. Very few real meats contain 60% calories from fat, and no, bacon is not real meat. It's junk with no nutritional value. Sure, it tastes great, but let's call it what it is. Too many people on this site are on the buttered coffee, bacon, nut butter and dark chocolate diet. Maybe that's why they stall? Again, too much focus on fat content, not enough focus on real food. If we focused on a whole foods message instead of some HFLC hogwash, not only would we all be better nourished but probably a lot thinner, too.
    Yes, there are some stupid threads on this forum. That doesn't mean every person who eats HFLC eats that way. I don't eat pork at all and totally agree with you about bacon. Calm down the rant factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    Honestly, I don't see that there is a predominance towards HFLC.

    While there is a certain subset of people who it works for, and who prefer it, there are also lots of people doing moderate carb, and even higher carb such as PHD which included a pound of starch daily.
    And I would say that the HFLC subgroup is by far the smaller one here on MDA.

    Edit: "buttered coffee, bacon, nut butter and dark chocolate" ... FYI- I don't eat any of those foods.
    For people who do those certainly are not the staples, and if they use them in moderation within their caloric allotment... you should probably go pound sand.
    I don't eat them either. I agree with Cori. Sand pounding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Well... I'll take the challenge
    Eggs come in at 63%
    Pork Belly Its not bacon...its belly! 92%
    Mmmmm ribeye so 72%

    gound beef
    59%, but factor in I buy 75/25 from wellness meats which actually bumps fat to 77%

    So without looking them all up we can say most any rib will make the list pork spare ribs, back ribs, beef ribs....basically most bone in hunks of meat. Chicken thighs and bone in pieces with skin attached make the list too.
    Most all the pieces I choose have 60+ from fat. I really do think it beneficial for people to choose the bone in fatty cuts on purpose. These cuts essentially render the constituents of bone broth right into the meat WHILE you slow cook them. And the fat to protein ratio of approximately 2/1 is optimal.
    Exactly. This is how I eat. Real foods and HFLC.

    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    I like cultured dairy too... and that can be delicious and up in the 70+% fat range.
    Me too but be careful, the real foods police might object.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I know you don't, but lots of people believe as long as they keep carbs low, they can take spoons to jars of almond butter, coconut oil, chomp chocolate as long as it's 85+% and drink buttered coffee with no repercussions. The HFLC movement promotes the belief that weight gain is "all about insulin" and calories only count if carbs are over a certain threshold. It's frustrating. I will never change my stance from "just eat real food." I live by that quote, and I believe in it deeply. It really is that easy.
    You are railing against very outdated misperceptions. Nobody with an ounce of common sense believes such stuff now. And nobody is disagreeing with the eat real foods message but yet you keep ranting as if they were. Go eat a potato and calm down.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayla2010 View Post
    I don't quite understand, but ill have a read soon. Just having a quick read in between cleaning.
    My TDEE according to a calculator yesterday is 2800, but dunno how that makes a difference. I did not have a BP coffee this morning. I was discussing all this in another thread.
    So me just being diagnosed with diabetes, due to extremely high insulin is because?
    Consensus of diabetes overstates the importance of insulin. There isn't any process in the body that doesn't potentially affect blood sugar, and insulin only accounts for a small percentage of what is seen as "insulin activity" in the body. Potassium is probably the largest factor.

    Degenerative diseases associated with diabetes, hyperglycemia, etc; are only indirectly related to insulin. I've posted this several times before.
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  5. #125
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    When in doubt, go back to the PB basics. Mark's guidelines below. I don't believe we are at chacosdailyapple.com. I am wary when someone is at this blog promoting their own blog with every post, no matter how authoritative they may sound.

    • 0-50 grams per day: Ketosis and I.F. (Intermittent Fasting) zone. Excellent catalyst for rapid fat loss through I.F. Not recommended for prolonged periods (except in medically supervised programs for obese or Type 2 diabetics) due to unnecessary deprivation of plant foods.
    • 50-100 grams per day: Sweet Spot for Weight Loss. Steadily drop excess body fat by minimizing insulin production. Enables 1-2 pounds per week of fat loss with satisfying, minimally restrictive meals.
    • 100-150 grams per day: Primal Maintenance zone. Once you’ve arrived at your goal or ideal body composition, you can maintain it quite easily here while enjoying abundant vegetables, fruits and other Primal foods.
    • 150-300 grams a day: Insidious Weight Gain zone. Most health conscious eaters and unsuccessful dieters end up here, due to frequent intake of sugar and grain products (breads, pastas, cereals, rice, potatoes – even whole grains). Despite trying to “do the right thing” (minimize fat, cut calories), people can still gain an average of 1.5 pounds of fat every year for decades.
    • 300+ grams a day: Danger Zone of average American diet. All but the most extreme exercisers will tend to produce excessive insulin and store excessive fat over the years at this intake level. Increases risk for obesity, Metabolic Syndrome and type 2 diabetes.

    Read more: How to Succeed with the Primal Blueprint | Mark's Daily Apple

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Well... I'll take the challenge

    Eggs come in at 63%

    Pork Belly Its not bacon...its belly! 92%

    Mmmmm ribeye so 72%

    gound beef
    59%, but factor in I buy 75/25 from wellness meats which actually bumps fat to 77%

    So without looking them all up we can say most any rib will make the list pork spare ribs, back ribs, beef ribs....basically most bone in hunks of meat. Chicken thighs and bone in pieces with skin attached make the list too.
    Most all the pieces I choose have 60+ from fat. I really do think it beneficial for people to choose the bone in fatty cuts on purpose. These cuts essentially render the constituents of bone broth right into the meat WHILE you slow cook them. And the fat to protein ratio of approximately 2/1 is optimal.
    I think most people eat also plant-based foods, which mainly contain carbs and protein, in order to naturally balance out their meals. I couldn't personally eat like you days on end, but more power to you!

  7. #127
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    Also, what I think Choco is getting at (btw, can we please spell this correctly? It is kind of irksome for many people to constantly misspell his username) is that our nature in general is to see what we can get away with. While most of the regular posters in this forum are reasonable about their food choices, most readers will browse, see that they can get away with eating sticks of butter and not put on pounds, and go about eating their pseudo-foods and passing it off as their Primal meal. There needs to be more emphasis on real food. Especially for the newbies.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakura_girl View Post
    I think most people eat also plant-based foods, which mainly contain carbs and protein, in order to naturally balance out their meals. I couldn't personally eat like you days on end, but more power to you!
    No doubt, I also eat plants(just not a lot of roots and tubers, though I do eat some)... but when paired with fatty meats and a dollop of high fat dairy the numbers really don't skew too badly at all towards the carb area.


    I am 100% in favor of "eat real food" though.
    And even leaner/higher carb for some folks... I have even specifically advised it to people!
    People have different needs.
    That is the simple truth.

    Different people have different needs and all I have ever wanted from my conversations with Choco was for him to respect the fact that HFLC has a place here just like every other percentage of macros on the spectrum, especially for people with emotional eating disorders/binge eaters.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktres View Post
    When in doubt, go back to the PB basics. Mark's guidelines below. I don't believe we are at chacosdailyapple.com. I am wary when someone is at this blog promoting their own blog with every post, no matter how authoritative they may sound.

    We could, but OP specifically asked if ladies over 45 - has it been harder to lose weight on PB. I think she was looking for other suggestions on ways to make PB work better for her.

    And I dont see what difference it makes where those suggestions come from. I listened to my OB-GYN and took his suggestions even though - and I could be wrong - but I don't think he ever tried to spit out a 9lb baby out of his who-who.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  10. #130
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    I drink buttered coffee, mostly when I run out of half n half. 1/2 to 3/4 of a tblsp of butter = 50 - 75 cal. Not that much more than the half and half (40 cal for 2 tblsp). It doesn't seem to matter much in terms of maintaining weight.

    Re: Chaco vs Choco. Not sure if it's a merging of Choco + Taco, or a genuine misspelling, but it always makes me think of the Chaco Chicken episode of XFiles. Relevance to Primal: the issue of feeding human remains to chickens.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

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