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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Him View Post
    My father has told the story of going through a grocery store with me when I was 2-3 years old. Young enough that I don't remember any of this, but old enough that I was starting to be me. I was acting up, and he was doing the "stop or you'll get a spanking," thing, but I ignored him. Finally, he did swat me. As he tells it, this was my response...

    He says I turned to glare at him and said, very loudly, "You brute!" That was it.

    He says he got some very strange looks from fellow shoppers about that.

    Physical punishment didn't work on me. I tended to be somewhat stubborn when approached that way. My parents adapted and used techniques that I think worked out OK.
    I think Cori was referring to children who respond in silence as a coping mechanism against trauma. At least that's what I took from it.

    Do you mind me asking what techniques your parents used? I'm not trying to be contentious - I'm genuinely interested. I would have no idea how to raise a child.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    ^ well, you did quote me so it wasn't a leap to presume that statement was directed at me.!

    Nothing to withdraw from from me FYI - I happen to agree with you.
    My apologies, YogaBear: I have nothing but respect for you, your posts and your contribution to MDA. I follow your comments and your thread and I, in no way, meant to offend or insult you. This is a topic that just brings me out of my normal, introverted shell. I'm sorry if I offended you -- it was definitely not my intention.
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  3. #73
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    I don't have kids yet. When I do, I hope I can raise them without ever striking them; that's the goal, and we'll see if I succeed in 25 years or so.

    I tend to think hitting kids represents a failure on the parents' part. I don't think it's a legitimate parenting strategy and for some kids it can lead to serious psychological damage.
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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louisa655 View Post
    My apologies, YogaBear: I have nothing but respect for you, your posts and your contribution to MDA. I follow your comments and your thread and I, in no way, meant to offend or insult you. This is a topic that just brings me out of my normal, introverted shell. I'm sorry if I offended you -- it was definitely not my intention.
    None taken! Glad we clarified that, lol. I appreciate your contribution too.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    The distinctions between spanking and hitting can be tenuous.
    And subjective. To many a third party I daresay there isn't much difference at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    I take my hat off to anyone who has kids because raising them looks like a minefield. My sister has a gorgeous little toddler who is impossible to manage cos' my sister doesn't want to be strict or impinge on the kid's development. She's reacting against her own excessively disciplinarian upbringing, but it's too far the other way.
    I would argue that violence isn't the same thing as discipline at all. I'm ALL for children having discipline and self control. Whether you need to use violence as a parenting technique is much more debateable.
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  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    I think Cori was referring to children who respond in silence as a coping mechanism against trauma. At least that's what I took from it.
    I assumed it was more about the fact that some kids are stubborn little buggers from an early age and won't back down when they think they're being pushed.

    Do you mind me asking what techniques your parents used? I'm not trying to be contentious - I'm genuinely interested. I would have no idea how to raise a child.
    They combined a heavy dose of the Socratic Method (dialog, lots of questions with most of them leading... "You think that... Why? What about this?"), active involvement in real-world stuff (we actually built stuff, did stuff, example: when I was 7 my father showed up from work one night with an IBM PC XT clone in a whole bunch of boxes...monitor, different drives, video card, motherboard, and so on...I put it together the next day, no assistance), not understanding the term "age appropriate" (the first school I ever intended was a university...I was 4ish, my mother was the student, but I remember some of what was taught in those classes), and a fair measure of what in modern buzz parlance would be called "unparenting." Top 10 Radical Parenting Methods : Discovery Health In other words, they pulled me in instead of pushing me around.
    Last edited by Him; 02-11-2013 at 03:44 PM.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Him View Post
    I assumed it was more about the fact that some kids are stubborn little buggers from an early age and won't back down when they think they're being pushed.
    Ha - what we interpreted probably reflects our own habitual responses

    Quote Originally Posted by Him View Post
    They combined a heavy dose of the Socratic Method (dialog, lots of questions with most of them leading... "You think that... Why? What about this?"), active involvement in real-world stuff (we actually built stuff, did stuff, example: when I was 7 my father showed up from work one night with an IBM PC XT clone in a whole bunch of boxes...monitor, different drives, video card, motherboard, and so on...I put it together the next day, no assistance), not understanding the term "age appropriate" (the first school I ever intended was a university...I was 4ish, my mother was the student, but I remember some of what was taught in those classes), and a fair measure of what in modern buzz parlance would be called "unparenting." Top 10 Radical Parenting Methods : Discovery Health In other words, they pulled me in instead of pushing me around.
    Thanks for that link - really interesting stuff. Looking forward to reading it in depth
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  8. #78
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    I was hit on occasion. More often I was let be. To be honest, I think both mental and physical discipline would have been better than the odd bit of mental discipline and what was essentially no physical punishment at all.

    If a kid threatens its own life or that of a weaker child, physical punishment should be allowed. If it is over tantrum-age (so about 10) and has a "tantrum" (a typically mature child having a "tantrum" is usually an emotional outburst similar to a panic-attack), hitting or physically retraining could help calm the child before it acts irrationally.
    If a child is too young to understand a logical explanation of something ("don't climb up there, you'll get hurt"), then a smack can help associate the behaviour with a lesser pain than they would experience if they continued.
    If a kid is just misbehaving, but otherwise level-headed, a telling-off or being sent to think over it should be enough.
    In pretty much any other scenario physical discipline would only serve as an anger-defuser for the parent and build distrust and resent, so it shouldn't be used.

    Ideally, it should be possible to protect young children from every threat until they're old enough to understand it, a child should be educated and respectful enough that any argument they want to have can be debated and a child wouldn't have random "fits" of anger. But sometimes a kid poses a danger to themselves or a younger child, there is a threat/behaviour that can't be stopped or continually monitored, or a kid is having a panic/rage attack. In those cases, breaking the behaviour by associating it with pain would be the best solution, to avoid it continuing.
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  9. #79
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    Getting spanked or yelled at (among other things) by my father was a given in our house.
    I was spanked so hard (bare hand on my bare bum) that I couldn't sit down for three days without feeling it.
    He hit me so hard across the head that I blacked out.

    He is dead.
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
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    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
    2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    Getting spanked or yelled at (among other things) by my father was a given in our house.
    I was spanked so hard (bare hand on my bare bum) that I couldn't sit down for three days without feeling it.
    He hit me so hard across the head that I blacked out.

    He is dead.
    And you are still alive. I hope he didn't hurt you too badly.
    Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

    My Primal Journal

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