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  1. #61
    cori93437's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodorchid View Post
    why would you want the kid to cry out?
    I wouldn't.
    But I read the OP's original post on this topic... and that seemed to be his aim.

    And it has seemed to be the aim of every single spanking I've ever been party to or witnessed either in person or in the media.
    Making the child hurt, react, cry out, leave a red mark, shed some tears... whatever.

    What about the kid who does NOT react to the smack?
    Was it the smack, or the child?

    I'll give you two guesses what the reaction of the spanker is in that situation BTW.
    *Hint: It's definitely not "Oh, OK... you've already been punished so you're done." At least not IME.
    Last edited by cori93437; 02-11-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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  2. #62
    bloodorchid's Avatar
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    if the actual aim is to make the kid cry or scream, it's abuse

    if the kid does not show any emotion to spanking then i would guess he's either been spanked too much or just doesn't care

    in which case spanking is not effective, and it is time to try time outs with nothing to look at or listen to but barney. vintage barney.

    when they start tremulously singing along to Clean Up then punishment is complete
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louisa655 View Post
    These types of comments are actually frightening to me. And we wonder how and why atrocities of war crimes existed? Exactly for this reason. Humans who are capable of inflicting physical, mental, and emotional trauma on other humans beings have gone down in history in crimes against humanity. It starts with control and physical abuse against children and escalates from there. This is a frightening topic and I'm disengaging from this discussion. Adults who assault animals and other human beings -- and justify their behaviour with "they deserve it" are frightening individuals.
    Ummm... are you inferring that I advocate violence against kids from my comment?!

    Other than that, I agree with everything else you said.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louisa655 View Post
    These types of comments are actually frightening to me. And we wonder how and why atrocities of war crimes existed? Exactly for this reason. Humans who are capable of inflicting physical, mental, and emotional trauma on other humans beings have gone down in history in crimes against humanity. It starts with control and physical abuse against children and escalates from there. This is a frightening topic and I'm disengaging from this discussion. Adults who assault animals and other human beings -- and justify their behaviour with "they deserve it" are frightening individuals.
    ...um... okay?
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  5. #65
    YogaBare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodorchid View Post

    if the kid does not show any emotion to spanking then i would guess he's either been spanked too much
    Yup. It's called disassociating. "Leaving your body". It's a coping mechanism. And it has subtle, far reaching consequences into the person's future life.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissoci...8psychology%29
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  6. #66
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    My father never, ever hit me. I love him dearly. I respected him, looked up to him, enjoyed being his child, and wanted to please him.

    My mother vented frustrations on me frequently. Screaming, yelling, hitting. I was afraid of her. I have memories of locking myself in the bathroom to escape her, and she would be pounding on the door, screaming. I have a startle reflex to loud noises and aversion to loud voices.

    I raised both my kids without violence; they are 21 and 22 now and we have loving and kind relationships, and they both neat people whom I admire.

    By the way, my only sister was 9 years younger than I. I had to watch my mother behave in the same way with her. I remember being in the hallway, with my sister locked in the bathroom, watching my mom screaming at her, and me, sobbing in the hallway begging her to stop.

    Sadly, we lost my sister to suicide in 2001 after a lifetime of emotional difficulty.

    I have no idea if 'swatting' or 'spanking' in a controlled way without anger is effective or good, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that what I and my sister experienced was a horror. I have done well and good in my life despite my mother's behavior, not because of it.

    Pea

  7. #67
    bloodorchid's Avatar
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    i've experienced normal parenting and i've experienced abusive parenting, i know

    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Yup. It's called disassociating. "Leaving your body". It's a coping mechanism. And it has subtle, far reaching consequences into the person's future life.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissoci...8psychology%29
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Ummm... are you inferring that I advocate violence against kids from my comment?!

    Other than that, I agree with everything else you said.
    I'm not referring to any comment or position that you may or may not hold. I've clearly stated my comments on this topic and I'm withdrawing from any further comments. I'm proud to have raised 4 successful young human beings -- without any physical abuse. All children are unique -- all had their challenges growing up and all who are contributing in a meaningful way to humanity as adults (with the exception of one who has passed away from cancer). I have delighted in, and worked with youth my entire life. I love youth and their individual ability and desires to buck conservatism. I thank God every day for our youth --- because they are our future. We need kids who think differently --- who don't comply with 'our thinking'. I love youth who want more than what we have --- who want differently than the "things" that we value. We are a materialistic generation and our kids think differently -- Thank God for that. Give our children the freedom to grow -- the freedom to think differently -- and the respect they deserve. Our kids MAY NOT THINK LIKE US and that's a good thing -- because this world needs a lot of change to make it better. The end. I'm now withdrawing.
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  9. #69
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    ^ well, you did quote me so it wasn't a leap to presume that statement was directed at me.!

    Nothing to withdraw from from me FYI - I happen to agree with you.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  10. #70
    Him's Avatar
    Him
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    And what do you do to the kid who doesn't respond with the expected "pain" out cry from your spanking?
    What if they show no response at all?


    That happens too.
    My father has told the story of going through a grocery store with me when I was 2-4 years old. Young enough that I don't remember any of this, but old enough that I was starting to be me. I was acting up, and he was doing the "stop or you'll get a spanking," thing, but I ignored him. Finally, he did swat me. As he tells it, this was my response...

    He says I turned to glare at him and said, very loudly, "You brute!" That was it.

    He says he got some very strange looks from fellow shoppers about that.

    Physical punishment didn't work on me. I tended to be somewhat stubborn when approached that way. My parents adapted and used techniques that I think worked out OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louisa655 View Post
    We are talking different beasts. Everyone has the right to protect themselves. Can a 4-year old protect themselves against an enraged parent? I think not.
    Who says the parent is enraged? That's just silly. Maybe you had lousy parents....
    Last edited by Him; 02-11-2013 at 03:23 PM.

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