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Thread: Hitting your kids page 27

  1. #261
    Chaohinon's Avatar
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    Fwiw, I'm an anarchist. When I say violent parents should be sterilized, I'm offering to do it myself. For free.
    “The whole concept of a macronutrient, like that of a calorie, is determining our language game in such a way that the conversation is not making sense." - Dr. Kurt Harris

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    not the point at all- lets say that all of the police everywhere are polite nanny trained jedi knights with no violent impulses...

    still, no one ever asked me to agree to a law. No one said, "Yo Perfidy- you down with this? You consent?" Men just show up intent on caging me, or making me work for nothing (pay fines) because I violated their idea of good behavior.

    So how is calling the cops acceptable and non-violent, but smacking a kid that is attacking another kid an act of violence?
    I was responding to your idea of punching 40 random people in the face.
    That isn't an arbitrary idea of good behavior. You violated those 40 peoples right to not get punched in the face.

    What I said is that they would either hit you themselves, or report you to the police to be handled by the courts without violence.
    If you don't like that idea... don't violate other peoples rights to go about free and unmolested.



    The fact that you people think every single cop is a thug is just weird.
    But go ahead and cling to your little conspiracy theories that they are all out to get you! Geez.
    Prisons are overcrowded with people serving time for minor offences because of LAW MAKERS and government.
    Particularly the federal government.
    And people who commit violent crimes are let off with less sentence than they need... often plead down to what looks like a minor infraction.
    Lots of local police let small frivolous infractions that could go to jail off with simple confiscation and destruction of the infraction.
    And a warning not to be out riding around with stuff so that they get caught.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  3. #263
    Mr.Perfidy's Avatar
    Mr.Perfidy is offline Senior Member
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    lol yeah...

    I don't think that's anarchism...Not in any sense that I understand the term (hoppe, Lewrockwell.com, Mises, Bastiat, etc)
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  4. #264
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    I was responding to your idea of punching 40 random people in the face.
    That isn't an arbitrary idea of good behavior. You violated those 40 peoples right to not get punched in the face
    you are changing it to punching.

    I said Slapping, in the context of an argument about whether slapping injures. My point was, even after a spree of 40 slaps on 40 faces, 4 days later, there would be no physical evidence that it ever happened. As in, slapping is not injurious to physical health. It's just shocking to the mind and senses. As in it is not abusive as a single act.

    Obviously habitually shocking and terrifying someone though is emotional abuse. It isn't physical abuse though to get slapped.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  5. #265
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    Yrs ago in Goldwaters, Phoenix, AZ, I saw a woman beating the hell out of her little girl's butt and legs.. her legs were beet red. No one was doing anything but saying quit, quit. So, I, being 25 and knowing everything, ya know, stepped between them and told the fool woman that's enough. She threatened to 'take me down' and I countered with she had no idea what a left hook I had. By then the security guard had walked up and split us all up.

    My husband reminded me of that afternoon recently when we were talking about AZ, and I asked him wonder where that cute little girl is today. He replied, probably beating the hell out of her cute little girl somewhere.

  6. #266
    Mr.Perfidy's Avatar
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    yeah beating on a kid, and slapping a kid once in the face because he's never been slapped, but thinks its swell to beat up his brother- different.

    I typically disapprove of, intercede even, public child beatings. Not at all what I am advocating. I was counselling the OP from another thread that right now, her son's idea of violence is just an idea, and was comparing it to trying to explain to him about an orgasm. How can words do that? Slap his ignorant face and school him. Then he would know, "Oooohh that's violence."
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    It sounded like her son had never been hit, according to her thread, and her later posts in this thread, so, untrue.



    as literally every square foot of the planet earth is claimed by monopolist aggressors (governments), "larger and more powerful people have authority because of their ability to impose violence on others" is in fact the rule of the earth. When they are unjustly harassed on the road as adults and fucked with an unnecessary fine, they will understand this as a property of aggression power dynamics, rather than act like some people I know and assume some kind of guilt over it.



    I was talking about hitting the kid that hits his brother...an act of aggression. It is protecting the brother from more aggression and teaching him that aggressors get smacked down.




    I just don't think this to be true. Where in any relationships anywhere ever do you find some kind of absolute inability to commit treachery? Why should people not learn early on that all hands might bring hurt? A property of hands is their ability to harm...

    Geez why are you still focussed on that. I have updated that thread, and it was not as bad as I thought.
    My son doesn't hit his brother all the time, not even every day. And when he does, its because of not yet knowing how to express his anger. He is not being nasty to his brother. We are working through how to deal with anger. He is 5 for FFS, not 12.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    I don't think I would ever smack in anger. It just makes the anger more intense and leads to stress. A smack serves two purposes:
    1.- To break a child out of an emotional meltdown. (I used to have panic attacks and physical pain was what helped me break out. I'd usually just use cold water on myself, but a child may not be aware of how to do that and probably wouldn't choose to.)
    2.- When the negative behaviour can't be talked about. If you have a two-year old in the habit of climbing book-cases, how do you explain bone-fractures, severe pain, crushed skulls and death to them? What is more likely to traumatize a kid that age: connecting "book-shelf-climbing" and "smack to the bum" or having someone show them what they'd look like if a shelf ever fell on them? Because, to a kid that age, death is something sad that just happens to others, not something that happens to THEM and explaining "a falling book-shelf can hurt you" may not suffice. The idea of punishment acts as the main deterrent until the child understands the danger.

    As for fear: why don't you climb on the handrails of bridges? Why don't you stick your hand in fire? Fear is the main reason most of us are alive. But young kids, who often struggle to understand concepts such as death and the frailty of the human form, are fearless, at least inasmuch as they don't fear abstract concepts, or things they have not experienced. Until they have felt the consequences (burnt hand) they won't stop endangering themselves for fun (sticking hand out to "catch" a flame). They're even more reckless when it comes to the lives and safety of other lifeforms, like babies. A fear of physical pain could be the only thing between some kids and an encounter with death.

    Physical punishment may only be required twice in a child's entire life, but, when it's required, a parent shouldn't just "be nice" and let the kid continue to endanger themselves.
    Its up to us to supervise our children when not at home, and when we are, we attach heavy things to walls. They need to be able to explore their environment safely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    I smack my wife!
    Wow, just wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    Bruises and a bloody nose and black eyes are not injuries...They go away and leave no impaired anything after a few days.

    Also obviously when I was counselling that mother to smack her kid as he attacked his brother, "so as not to cause any kind of physical damage" is implied.

    You are off base. I can leave my front door right now and smack 40 people, and in 3 days, there will not be evidence that it ever happened except in their minds.
    Re-read my thread. He didn't attack his brother, it is not at all like that.
    Do you think children should just automatically know how to deal with their emotions? We have to help them through that.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalJewishAmericanPrincess View Post
    What I've learned from this entire thread
    -Some people that do not believe in hitting, also believe that there is nothing that you can do to change a child's behavior and that some kids are just assholes
    -Some people that do not believe in hitting, believe that all ass-hole-ness is learned and that you must carefully control every aspect of your child's life to ensure that they are not harmed and do not become assholes
    -Some people believe in hitting as a way to control and train them not to be assholes
    -Some people believe that in hitting them, they are assured to become assholes

    Most of all, I've learned that this entire cluster has been caused by one woman who came to a HEALTH AND FITNESS forum for PARENTING ADVICE.
    Are you serious? This thread has other sections, and I knew there was other parents who did things the same way as me.

    This thread is not my fault. This guy is crazy. Read his other posts.

  8. #268
    Ayla2010's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    yeah beating on a kid, and slapping a kid once in the face because he's never been slapped, but thinks its swell to beat up his brother- different.

    I typically disapprove of, intercede even, public child beatings. Not at all what I am advocating. I was counselling the OP from another thread that right now, her son's idea of violence is just an idea, and was comparing it to trying to explain to him about an orgasm. How can words do that? Slap his ignorant face and school him. Then he would know, "Oooohh that's violence."
    WTF are you a bit slow? This is about a 5 year old, who sometimes hits his brother because he is angry, because he is still learning how else to express that. And we are working through that.
    I have been explaining to him we use our words to express our anger, not our hands. He is getting it. Remember again, he is 5.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    you are changing it to punching.

    I said Slapping, in the context of an argument about whether slapping injures. My point was, even after a spree of 40 slaps on 40 faces, 4 days later, there would be no physical evidence that it ever happened. As in, slapping is not injurious to physical health. It's just shocking to the mind and senses. As in it is not abusive as a single act.

    Obviously habitually shocking and terrifying someone though is emotional abuse. It isn't physical abuse though to get slapped.
    Since I have been bruised from I believe the term you used was "smack".
    And since I have been bruised rather often in my years from openhanded smacks... and bruises are injuries...
    And since even an hour or two of redness and swelling constitutes proof of battery... yeah.
    You would be found guilty of 40 counts of battery if you were to go out and "smack" 40 people in the face and they all reported it.

    Because you don't have the right to go around hitting people.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  10. #270
    Mr.Perfidy's Avatar
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    lol Ayla I pointed out that I smack my wife because I wish to discuss why the anti-hitting crowd is so anti-slap, as if slapping is the same thing as scarring with hot pokers.

    Your husband/man whatever, he probably slaps you too. It is quite normal human behavior, the slap, and has many contexts because it dramatically affects the senses of the slapped and slapper without incurring any real harm to either. As in, ass-cheeks...smack 'em.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

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